499: This Is Your Problem
Transcript from 499: This Is Your Problem with Janet Hansen, Christopher White, and Elecia White.
Elecia (00:06):
Welcome to Embedded. I am Elecia White, alongside Christopher White. Our guest this week is Janet Hansen. We are going to talk about Daft Punk, Madame Tussauds and what a true glow up means.
Chris (00:20):
Hi Janet. Welcome.
Janet (00:22):
Hi! Great to be here.
Elecia (00:23):
Thank you for joining us. Could you tell us about yourself as if we met, I do not know, at one of the Supercon events?
Janet (00:34):
Sure. I am an LED artist, and I specialize in mounting lights in fabrics. I program them to display different kinds of color changing effects, and the animation is part of the art. I use these techniques to make light-up clothing and costumes, mostly for the entertainment industry. I also make some light-up art that is non-wearable.
Elecia (00:58):
We have a lot of makers who do similar things. But this is your profession?
Janet (01:04):
Yeah. I have been doing this full-time for about 25 years now.
Elecia (01:09):
Okay. We have a lot of questions-
Janet (01:09):
<laugh> Great.
Elecia (01:11):
Including what does Daft Punk actually look like?
Janet (01:15):
Well, I think they have made their faces public and visible since the band retired. But yeah, that was really fun to get to meet with them at rehearsals and planning meetings, and get to know what they- They are just two regular guys.
Elecia (01:29):
Except one of them is also the Stig.
Chris (01:31):
The Stig? Oh my God.
Elecia (01:34):
Okay. Lightning round. We are going to ask you short questions. If we are behaving ourselves, we will not ask, "Why?" and, "How?" and, "Exactly what year that happened in?" Are you ready?
Janet (01:43):
Yes.
Chris (01:45):
North, East, South, West or Atwood?
Janet (01:49):
Oh. Two years in North, two years in Atwood. But I like them all.
Elecia (01:52):
Concentration?
Janet (01:55):
Art.
Chris (01:56):
What was your favorite engineering class?
Janet (01:58):
Probably Shop.
Elecia (02:00):
Yes.
Chris (02:00):
<laugh>
Elecia (02:00):
Was the best. Do you know what Harvey Mudd's mascot is?
Janet (02:08):
Is it Rusto? Or is it changed?
Elecia (02:11):
No. I mean, that is a valid answer.
Chris (02:14):
I do not remember what it- What is it?
Elecia (02:16):
It is a mud wasp.
Chris (02:17):
I thought it was the Warts.
Janet (02:19):
Oh yeah. I also have one of the Warts.
Elecia (02:21):
I would also have accepted, "Rhino."
Chris (02:23):
Okay, so there was no mascot is what you are telling me. <laugh>
Elecia (02:26):
No, no.
Chris (02:28):
The mud wasp?
Elecia (02:29):
You know. Okay.
Chris (02:31):
I was there for same four years you were? And I do not remember any wasps. <laugh>
Janet (02:36):
Yeah, I have never heard of that one.
Chris (02:40):
<laugh> Oh. Is that a joke?
Elecia (02:42):
No!
Chris (02:42):
Oh my God! I am a little out of it today. What is your favorite fictional robot? Let us get away from the wasps. <laugh>
Janet (02:50):
I would say Lieutenant Commander Data. I am kind of a "Star Trek" nerd.
Chris (02:53):
Cool.
Elecia (02:55):
What is the cleverest trick you have ever used, for hiding a battery in a wearable?
Chris (02:59):
Hmm.
Janet (03:01):
Oh, that is a good question. Gee, I do not know that I would call any of them clever, especially. The most clever I am aware of, is someone gave me a little prop they made that needed no battery.
Chris (03:13):
Hmm.
Janet (03:13):
That just by spinning around it generated enough electricity to make a few lights blink. I was impressed by that, but that was not my work.
Chris (03:23):
Cool idea. Hot glue or stitches?
Janet (03:26):
Mostly stitches, but hot glue definitely has its place as part of the process.
Elecia (03:29):
Conductive thread or wires?
Janet (03:31):
Always wires. Always wires. You need that insulation. If you make something with conductive thread, it might be sexy that you can crumple it up like fabric, but good luck shorting things out that you do not want to, and debugging that.
Chris (03:48):
Do you have a tip everyone should know?
Janet (03:50):
Strain relief is important.
Chris (03:52):
Yes.
Elecia (03:55):
<laugh> Yes. Okay. Lightning round is over, and now we are moving on to the bigger questions.
Janet (04:04):
Okay.
Elecia (04:06):
25 years! You have been doing this for 25 years?
Janet (04:10):
25 years full-time. A few years part-time, even before that.
Elecia (04:15):
How did you get into making LED wearables and art, for a living?
Janet (04:20):
Well, it started as a hobby. I was doing lots of art for fun on the side. It usually had some kind of technical component. Painting abstract geometric things and meshes, related to my finite element modeling work.
(04:34):
You have LEDs around, you put them in costumes. A friend of a friend invited me to participate in a wearable tech fashion show, which gave me a little bit of budget and an opportunity to put something on a runway. That was really exciting.
(04:52):
The thing I discovered from that was it was a bunch of teams of art students and tech students. I was not affiliated with either school. But I was the only person that did both sides of the project, the art and the tech. I realized, "Wow. This really gives me an advantage, compared to people that need to communicate across disciplines."
Elecia (05:16):
And you have a PhD in bioengineering?
Janet (05:18):
Yes.
Elecia (05:20):
How did you decide that this was the full-time career, instead of the possibly more lucrative professor or engineer?
Janet (05:32):
Yeah. Well, I studied engineering at Mudd, because bioengineering was not offered as an undergrad major anywhere. I knew to get into bioengineering back then, I really had to go to grad school. So that was always part of the plan. I had funding from NSF and the American Heart Association, that kept me there longer than I had originally thought I would be.
(05:58):
Towards the end of that, I realized I did not want to follow the academic track and be a professor. So I had to change gears and figure out what can I get an industry job in, using the work I have been doing. The finite element modeling actually carried over really naturally to aerospace.
(06:15):
So I had already made a big career leap once. I worked there for a couple years. It was a few years into that, that I did this fashion show and really discovered my passion for wearable tech.
Elecia (06:29):
Have there been any in particular projects you have worked on, that have led to really good stories you can tell us, without six beers first?
Janet (06:44):
<laugh> Gee, I do not know. There are fun details about all of them.
(06:47):
The Daft Punk project- It was great to be able to see the rehearsals, to be an audience of one in front of the pyramid, while they worked on the lighting for that show. Then to see it performed live, the part where my light-up thing was revealed during the encore, to hear the crowd reaction was just really amazing. After the Brooklyn show, I got to do tequila shots with the band backstage afterwards. That was fun.
(07:15):
I do not know, I have too many stories. It is hard to narrow it down.
Elecia (07:22):
Okay. We will have to cue a few as we go on.
(07:24):
You mentioned the art versus tech, I am going to call it "divide." Working with artists who are not technical, how do you make them costumes and devices they can use, that are easy for them to use and do not break?
Janet (07:46):
Yeah. That is a big part of what I do, I think is acting as an interpreter. That often I will get a description in artistic terms of, "We want this feeling. We want this mood. These are our practical things we need to deal with. Like a quick change. Or it has to fit in this type of garment." Yeah, make something. Speak to them in terms they understand. Try to meet the artistic needs.
(08:13):
At the same time, I am often talking to technical people on the crew. I need to speak their language, and talk about we are using wireless DMX or other stuff to control it. They want to be reassured that everything is safe. Yeah, I am talking to both sides and I am often a go-between there.
Elecia (08:36):
DMX is what I think of as MIDI for lighting. It is the control mechanism for doing light-up things on-
Janet (08:44):
Yeah. Yes.
Elecia (08:45):
I usually think about stage lighting, but clothing lighting also?
Janet (08:50):
Yeah. Well, I do a lot of work for Broadway, where there is stage lighting. They want to have a certain costume effect happen on cue. So the same console that is controlling all the other lights in the show, can trigger effects in the costumes that I make.
Elecia (09:05):
Okay. Could you drop some names now? I want to know which Broadway. I do not think it is "Hamilton."
Chris (09:12):
No, I do not think there are a lot of lights in "Hamilton," beyond stage lights.
Janet (09:15):
No.
Elecia (09:15):
<laugh>
Janet (09:17):
One of the first big Broadway shows I worked on was the revival of "Cats." I think that was in 2016. So Mr. Mistoffelees has a light-up coat, and I think Cassandra is the other cat. There is a gimmick where he touches her chest, and then her whole body suit lights up.
(09:34):
That one has been on tour in North America for a long time. I am not sure if it is right now. But having costumes lasting over a period of years was a big challenge with that one.
Elecia (09:50):
Everything I make that has light-up in it, has an innate fragility. How do you- Maybe it is tips and tricks? How do you make something that can last years, and still be occasionally cleaned?
Janet (10:06):
Yeah. I think part of the key is, if you break something enough times, you understand what the limits are.
Chris (10:12):
Hmm.
Elecia (10:12):
<laugh> Strain relief.
Janet (10:15):
Yeah. So lessons learned. The next time I will not do something that way. And just having a general sense of how much slack to leave in wires. What fabrics are better for supporting things. What materials to use. All that. Just the cumulative experience I have with that, really comes in handy.
(10:35):
And I really hate doing repairs, especially when something comes back gross and sweaty. Those are the things we do not want to talk about when someone is eating. Especially how bad some of these pieces smell. So I am motivated to make things that do not require repairs.
Elecia (10:53):
Okay. Tactically, as somebody who might try this, what are three things that would improve my game, for making light-up wear for myself?
Janet (11:05):
If you can mount the lights on parts of the garment that do not stretch, that is one key. Either if the whole thing is non-stretch fabric. Like a vest or a coat, is going to be easier to work with than a thin T-shirt.
Elecia (11:18):
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Janet (11:18):
Think about how long the wires need to be when you are moving. Like, when you bend your arm, the line along the outside edge of your arm gets longer, so you do not want to put something there that cannot extend. Like, LED tape obviously cannot extend. So I use a lot of strings of LEDs with S curves in the wiring in between each light, and that gives it enough space to flex and extend.
Elecia (11:51):
Like little springs.
Janet (11:54):
A little bit. Yeah. Also, you do not want them to get tangled with each other. So having them stay an S curve in the plane of the fabric. There might be a base layer that the lights are hand sewn onto, and then another sheer layer over the top so the light gets through, but it disguises the fact that you have some wires there.
Elecia (12:14):
And it disguises the shirring that would be caused by the S shape, the stitches.
Janet (12:23):
Yeah. If they are held down the right way, you do not see those pucker or bend at all. That is a trick you can do with picking a fabric that has some texture and hides it. Like sequins or some sparkly fabrics will hide the bumps, better than a perfectly smooth satin fabric that will show every pucker and bump underneath. So it is better to avoid those.
Elecia (12:48):
Okay. One more. Maybe about batteries?
Chris (12:49):
<laugh>
Janet (12:52):
<laugh> Yeah. The first question I would ask is, "How long do you need these to last?" There is a big difference between someone that is performing one song in this outfit, versus someone that wants it to last all night as a festival. So there are different strategies there.
Elecia (13:09):
Oh. I did not think about just one song. I thought everything would have a minimum four hours or something. Okay.
Janet (13:15):
No. Some of my clients just need ten minutes of battery life, and extra batteries to use during rehearsals, or enough chargers so they can keep swapping them out.
Elecia (13:25):
Do you standardize batteries?
Janet (13:28):
It depends. There is a type of nickel-metal hydride pack that I like, that is from the RC car industry.
Chris (13:37):
Oh. Wow.
Janet (13:39):
Now that the tech of USB power banks has gotten good enough. Though you have to do a lot more work to make sure you are getting the right voltage you want out of those. But I use those sometimes too.
Elecia (13:56):
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(14:14):
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(14:37):
What is different about making a costume for someone who has paid you, versus clothing for yourself? Or costume for yourself? A commissioned piece versus a personal piece.
Janet (14:57):
Yeah. Well, for myself, I can make whatever I want. I do not have to worry it is going to be judged, on workmanship, quality or matching the aesthetic. I can sort of make it up as I go along.
(15:09):
Commissioned pieces, we have more of a blueprint of it needs to look like this, it needs to do this, it needs to be delivered by this date. Some clients will give me some artistic license, or they will say, "Do what you think looks good." But on some projects, the design is fully set in stone by the company that is paying for it, and I am more of a technician for them.
Elecia (15:34):
What is your favorite type of commission?
Janet (15:36):
The ones where I have full artistic license, definitely.
Elecia (15:43):
If you were off, paid, for three months, give it a decently long amount of time, and instructed to make something on your own, primarily for yourself, you might be able to give it away, but something you wanted to make. What would be on your list?
Janet (16:06):
Well, that almost describes my experience during the pandemic, when Broadway shut down and there was not any live entertainment. That was an opportunity for me to catch up with every little art project I had started and not finished, and just play around with things.
(16:24):
As the cost of addressable LEDs has gotten lower, there are things that would have been impractical even five or ten years ago, like making a coat completely solid full of LEDs. I could make something impractical, and I would add to the things I am decorating my living room with. I think I would like to upholster a couch, completely with LEDs.
Elecia (16:49):
<laugh> A whole couch.
Janet (16:49):
That is on my list. Yes.
Elecia (16:51):
That would be very cool.
Chris (16:52):
For doing something like that, where you have a dense array of LEDs, is it still all by hand and very carefully stitching them in? Or are there automated things that assist you in placing them all?
Janet (17:08):
There are a few shortcuts. I find I am still hand stitching the turnaround points, if I make the line go back and forth to fill in a grid. But I can use machine sewing in between the lines, to sandwich the lights between two different shear layers. I have been using that construction technique a lot lately.
Elecia (17:29):
You have your own controller, which I mean if you started 25 years ago, you have probably gone through a number of different controllers.
Janet (17:36):
Yes. Yeah. They have evolved over time. I use it sort of as a Swiss Army knife, of something I can use to customize for a client very quickly. Features have been added over the years, depending on what they need. So sound reactivity, interfacing to DMX, interfacing to a Bluetooth app, motion sensitivity. Those things have gone in little by little.
(18:02):
For a while I was using a Teensy 3.2, and recently jumped to the Teensy 4.1. I use that for things that have enough space for a driver that big.
Elecia (18:20):
The motion reactive, motion sensitive.
Janet (18:22):
Mm-hmm.
Elecia (18:22):
What kind of effects have you gotten from that?
Janet (18:29):
Actually, I am just in the beginning of using that. It is a feature that is in the new controller, that I have not had time to play with very much. But I think it is called the "Qwiic Interface," the Q W I I C.
Elecia (18:39):
Yeah.
Chris (18:40):
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Janet (18:40):
It supports that. I have some of the accelerometers from that family. The effects engine in my software can respond to all kinds of input, so it is set up that I can pick values from the accelerometer and do things.
Elecia (19:00):
I love inertial measurement units and accelerometers and gyros and magnetometers. So I am always curious how people are going to use them for effect. I can imagine a lot of things, like free fall you go dark, and then when you land an explosion of color, and all these other things. The gyros with the ability to tell when things are moving and spinning. If you have anybody you want to try out with those, let me know.
Janet (19:29):
Okay.
Elecia (19:29):
I have all kinds of ideas.
Janet (19:31):
Yeah. Actually, the very first full body light-up suit I made was motion reactive. But it was using mercury tilt switches, which also tells you how long ago that was.
Chris (19:41):
<laugh>
Elecia (19:44):
How often do you have to go back and make something lighter? I mean less physically heavy, not brighter.
Chris (19:51):
Yeah. Right.
Janet (19:53):
Right. It is usually not that much of a problem.
Elecia (19:56):
Oh, okay.
Janet (19:57):
Some of the lights that are sealed with huge amounts of silicone, like the LED imitation neon, I found that those get kind of heavy, to be- So I just do not use those. And some of the bulkier weather resistant lights made for the sign industry, those would also add a lot of weight.
(20:18):
So by just starting with smaller types of lights to begin with, weight is usually not the problem. The battery will be the biggest, heaviest thing.
Elecia (20:28):
Do you generally use one battery, or do you decentralize them?
Janet (20:34):
It depends. For people that need crazy long battery life, I have put as many as four packs in them, and have a hot swap splitting circuit in there, so they can plug in as many as they want. That has been the easiest way to handle people that want multiple batteries.
Elecia (20:52):
Then do you usually place them along the back? Or is there a better...? Batteries.
Janet (21:00):
Yeah, if it is a coat, most people want them in the back, or on the sides under the arms. It depends on the shape of the garment. If some people do not want to add thickness, they want their waist to look small, I have put things in shoulder pads. If it is a skirt with enough volume, you can strap something to someone's thigh and hide it there.
Chris (21:25):
What about a giant coil, and you are wirelessly <laugh> transmitting the power?
Elecia (21:28):
<laugh>
Janet (21:31):
<laugh> No, I have not gotten into that kind of thing.
Chris (21:35):
You mentioned the wireless, the DMX, and I am curious. Wireless stuff always makes me nervous in a <laugh> professional setting. For like music applications, wireless guitar interface- Not interfaces, but wireless guitar.
Elecia (21:48):
Pickups.
Chris (21:48):
Yeah. Transmitting. For concerts and stuff, I always feel like, "Oh, that just makes me cringe, because there is just so much that can go wrong with RF."
Janet (21:59):
Oh, yes. Yes, definitely.
Chris (22:01):
Do you have problems with that? Or is that mostly all settled down, and the technology is pretty stable and figured out?
Janet (22:08):
If anything, it has gotten harder.
Chris (22:09):
Okay.
Janet (22:09):
I work with a professional DMX vendor, RC4. They worked with me a lot when I did a project for the Rockettes, where we needed to control up to 36 dancers separately. Each of them also had a wireless thing in each tap shoe for microphones.
Chris (22:30):
Oh my.
(22:32):
The RF situation in Radio City Music Hall is- It was pretty intense. So we had to do a lot of onstage testing and range testing. That was a multi-year project to do that. But it led to a custom device, a small pixel driver basically, that they still sell.
(22:53):
You can hook it up to RGB LEDs yourself, or I use the I2C interface to talk to my controller. We see the whole DMX feed, and we can decide what channels we want to respond to, and use those to trigger parameters in the software for different effects. So we can minimize the number of channels we are using. That helps with signal strength, if you are not using the entire DMX universe all at once.
Elecia (23:23):
There is an application for motion sensitive lighting, the Rockettes.
Chris (23:29):
Oh. Yeah.
Janet (23:30):
Oh. Yeah. Yeah.
Elecia (23:33):
Can you tell us about something that did not work?
Chris (23:35):
<laugh>
Janet (23:40):
<laugh> Yeah. Well, one- Continuing with the DMX, back then- Well, as more and more people have cell phones and there is Wi-Fi everywhere, the 2.4 GHz band is just almost unusable.
Chris (23:54):
Right.
Elecia (23:54):
Mm-hmm.
Janet (23:56):
So in North America and a few other places, you can use 900 MHz. So sometimes that works. But for a world tour, that is going to be a problem. So last year I did some work with Coldplay. They have a lot of experience navigating these kinds of technical concerns.
(24:15):
It was a fast turnaround for their initial order, and that was for light-up outfits for a music video. They were confident that they could handle the 2.4 GHz version of wireless DMX, for purposes of shooting the video. But then they wanted to also use the costumes on tour. So that became a question of-
Chris (24:40):
"Oops. We picked the wrong thing." <laugh>
Janet (24:40):
Well, no.
Elecia (24:40):
<laugh> "Change the radios!"
Janet (24:43):
We would have to develop something custom. And, yeah, we actually did. We went back to a much simpler control, where there is already audio analysis happening in my controller. It is the MSGEQ7, I think. But anyway, we basically turned it into a tone analyzer. Using an in-ear mic system, we could send different combinations of audio tones to trigger like, "Play pattern one. Play pattern two."
Chris (25:17):
Oh, neat.
Janet (25:18):
Stuff like that. So that was also some quick development work. For that, I worked with my friend Kent Suzuki, also a Mudder, of Right Brain Electronics. He collaborates with me on a lot of stuff. He is especially an audio person. So we were happy to make that happen.
(25:36):
So that is an alternative to work in different frequencies. Because with the in-ear mic systems, you can customize what you are broadcasting on.
Elecia (25:47):
Basically this was a modem.
Janet (25:49):
I guess so. Yeah. <laugh> Okay.
Chris (25:52):
This chip you mentioned, the MSGEQ7 is really interesting. I did not realize these existed. They are basically really small- Sort of like a really crude FFT chip with eight pins.
Janet (26:05):
Yeah. Yeah.
Chris (26:07):
Yeah. It outputs a couple of bands and gives you how much power is in each one, I guess?
Elecia (26:11):
Is it DTMF?
Chris (26:13):
No!
Elecia (26:14):
Okay.
Chris (26:14):
No. It is for making graphic equalizer things for audio. But you can get the output and use it for whatever you want.
Elecia (26:21):
Hmm.
Janet (26:22):
Yeah. It does the processing for you, so your microprocessor does not have to carry that load.
Elecia (26:26):
I mean, you have a Teensy. You have a lot of <laugh> overhead there.
Janet (26:30):
Right. Yes. We used it in the old version. And yes, converting to doing more complicated spectral analysis with the Teensy, it is on the wishlist. But that is not implemented yet. So for the time being, I am still using that external chip to do that part of the work.
Elecia (26:48):
Cost is important, but it is not the final driver for you, is it?
Chris (26:53):
Not from Coldplay. Oh. Sorry.
Elecia (26:54):
<laugh>
Janet (26:56):
Yeah. No. The entertainment industry, they do care about their budgets. It is not unlimited, unlike what some people imagine.
Chris (27:02):
<laugh>
Janet (27:02):
But yeah. I think it is more important that it is good, than that it is cheap. But it is still not open checkbook for all this.
Chris (27:19):
Yeah. Especially for a show or something, where you are replicating maybe a lot of costumes and have backup costumes, I assume.
Janet (27:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Most professional shows, if they are going to be touring for a while or they do a lot of shows per week, that is built into the budget, is you have a certain number of backup costumes or a plan for how you are going to repair things.
(27:39):
I guess I did not talk about washability before.
Chris (27:43):
Oh, yeah.
Janet (27:43):
A lot of these things are going to be spot clean only. Some fancy fabrics are that way anyway. If it is something that you need to wash, we figure out a way to make the electronics removable. Or maybe there is a lining that gets unzipped, and you wash that part.
(28:01):
For the Rockettes project, all the electronics were removable, because the lights had like a button stud on top, like you would see in cuff links. The strings of lights could be fully removed from the garment, so they could dry clean them. But it took more than an hour per coat, to take them out or put them in. Times 36 coats. So they ended up not dry cleaning them as often as they thought they would, but it was good to have that option.
Elecia (28:33):
Yeah, I think about some of the concerts I have seen, the performers are basically running for four hours at a time.
Janet (28:43):
Yeah. Well, we hope that they are only wearing the light-up thing for the song where they are using it, and not for the whole show, just getting it sweaty. I had one client where it was agreed that they were just going to wear it for one song. But the stylist is, "Well, he liked it so much, he was keeping it on for the whole concert." It got so sweaty that the lights were getting corroded and falling off.
Chris (29:06):
<laugh> Oh, no.
Janet (29:06):
This was back when- These were the single color through-hole LEDs-
Chris (29:10):
Oh, wow.
Janet (29:11):
Which you could pierce them through leather and mount them on the inside, and it made a nice little stud effect. But if you get that leather hot and sweaty and wet, it is like dipping the whole thing in a Jacuzzi, basically. So when they told me the lights were falling off, I got a little worried, and they said they would FedEx it to me. So I opened up a FedEx box-
Chris (29:36):
Oh, no!
Janet (29:37):
The coat was still wet!
Chris (29:38):
Oh, no <laugh>.
Janet (29:39):
So, like, "Yeah. This is your problem." They had been setting it up with fans blowing on it, and it still was a problem.
Elecia (29:49):
At what point does it short, and cause even more special special effects?
Janet (30:01):
If it got to the battery, that would have been bad. Or to the power input to the controller. But the current running through the LEDs themselves, was not bad enough to hurt you, really.
Elecia (30:12):
That is true.
Janet (30:13):
I have done photo shoots at the beach here near my house, with some things plugged into batteries. The wave came in a little farther, and I have it on video of exactly when the thing went off, when the salt water got to the battery. So. Yeah. I know, "Do not do that."
Elecia (30:32):
You got to do it once or twice, just to make sure you understand the ramifications <laugh>.
Janet (30:37):
Yes.
Elecia (30:40):
Okay. I want to go back, all the way back to the beginning. You have a PhD in bioengineering. You are working in aerospace finite element analysis, which is still one of those things that is kind of magic today, even though it is a lot more prevalent. You do the wearable art show, and then you start to pick this up as more than a hobby.
Janet (31:04):
Yeah.
Elecia (31:05):
What did you introduce yourself as, when you worked in aerospace? Engineer? Aerospace engineer?
Janet (31:13):
Yeah. It said, "Project engineer," on my business card.
Elecia (31:17):
Do you remember the first time you introduced yourself as an artist?
Chris (31:18):
Hmm.
Janet (31:22):
It happened gradually over time. When I first started doing the light-up clothes, my business card said, "Fashion engineer."
Elecia (31:28):
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Janet (31:30):
So it was a progression from that. I guess I had always considered myself an artist, in the sense it was what I did as my main hobby, going back to childhood. But I did not feel like I was allowed to call myself that professionally.
(31:44):
As I started to make a pivot towards doing more non-wearable things that could be marketed more as art, I had to reframe things and realize, "Well, I am already doing art." Yes, some of it is more commercial, but I just go all in and yeah, I am an artist. Some of the stuff I make is wearable things for commercial clients, and some of it is just art for art's sake.
Elecia (32:18):
Let us talk a little bit about the art for art's sake. Do you count the pillows in there, or not?
Janet (32:25):
They are kind of in a middle ground, I guess.
Elecia (32:26):
<laugh> Yeah. How much of your art is custom, versus prefabricated?
Janet (32:39):
You mean in terms of one-offs? Or versus multiple copies of things? Because it is all made by me.
Elecia (32:46):
In terms of where the impetus comes from, kind of the commission problem.
Janet (32:50):
Oh, okay.
Elecia (32:50):
You sell pillows that are already fabricated. Or maybe you get an order and suddenly fabricate it. But you also sell art pieces that are not listed on your website ahead of time.
Janet (33:05):
Yeah. For the most part, the art is all me. I am happy to do commissions, but most of that is just I made what I wanted to make, and then try to sell it afterwards.
(33:16):
It is the opposite of the business model with the costumes, where I sell it first and then I make it. Which is a relatively safe business model, and I am thankful for that. That pays my bills, and allowed me to build up the portfolio and all that. But the other things, that is my chance to just make what I want to make.
Elecia (33:39):
For me as a consultant, I only really get to do what I want to make, when I do not have a paying client waiting for me to make what they want to make.
Janet (33:51):
Mm-hmm.
Elecia (33:51):
Is it the same for you? Or do you set aside time to follow your own ideas?
Janet (33:58):
Yeah. For a long time I was so busy with the costumes, that I had no time to do the just for fun hobby things. Unless it was the time I would take off to prepare and go to Burning Man. For a long time, that was my big creative outlet, outside of the costumes.
Elecia (34:17):
Wait. Wait. Was it a creative outlet, or was it the best networking opportunity <laugh>?
Janet (34:24):
<laugh> Ah. I did not see Burning Man as a networking thing. I know lots of people that treat it differently. But, yeah. A lot of my clients would buy things that they could wear at Burning Man, but that was all sold off playa, in the months before that.
(34:40):
As I decided to make the pivot that I wanted to do more art that I instigated, I guess, I would make time for it. And part of the way of building up your portfolio as an artist is to do juried shows. So you have to have a body of work that you can submit to things.
(35:00):
You cannot just keep submitting the same pieces over and over again. They want to see new stuff, and development and an evolution. So I have been working pretty hard on that over the past five or six years. I have deadlines on that side too. So it is not just costumes. I switch back and forth between those kinds of projects.
Elecia (35:24):
One of those is "Kaleidoscopic Comfort."
Janet (35:33):
Yes.
Elecia (35:34):
That is in the San Diego International Airport.
Janet (35:37):
Yeah. I am really excited about that. They do an annual temporary art installation, with the theme changes every year. This year's theme is "Mirror Mirror." It is inspired by the Southern California Light and Space art movement of the 1960s. The idea is how that legacy is reflected and what art is being made today. A lot of it was about light and color and materials, and borrowing materials from the industries of the region.
(36:10):
So my stuff fit in pretty well, that I am using electronics and my background in tech, and maybe a little bit of the entertainment industry flare. The pieces I made, I call it "Kaleidoscopic Comfort," because it looks a little bit like a kaleidoscope with the six-way mirroring. But it is also made out of padded fluffy fabric, so it is soft and comforting to look at, and comfort in literally being soft.
Elecia (36:42):
Do people get to touch it?
Janet (36:46):
Officially, you are not supposed to. There are little suggested ropes to keep you away, but it can handle people touching it. I am used to things being abused much, much more. So yeah, it has been up for a few months and they look fine. I was just there the other day.
Elecia (37:03):
Do you have advice for people considering getting into art as a career?
Janet (37:08):
Well, I will say, "It will be harder than you imagine. And you will make a lot less money than you imagine, at least initially." It is good if you have a day job that you can use to fund it, even a part-time job. I feel fortunate that my day job is also an artistic thing.
(37:30):
But yeah, I am not sure what other advice I would have. Because I feel like I have not figured out how to support myself from strictly making art I want to make, versus doing commissions.
Elecia (37:45):
It is difficult for me when I think about making art, because if I use my engineering or consulting hourly rate on the art, it becomes unconscionably expensive for what it is.
Janet (37:59):
Mm-hmm.
Elecia (38:02):
How do you value your time, when you are making art? Or do you just not factor that?
Janet (38:11):
It is tricky. I had to decide pretty early on, that I was not going to compete with the cheapest possible mass produced stuff. I sought out clients that needed something handmade and custom, and with tech support that was not on the other side of the world. So I have tried to stay in the realm of working with clients that can afford something a little on the pricier side.
(38:39):
But yeah, I would be making much more money pricing myself as an engineer. So I am trying to find the happy medium of making things accessible, sometimes. I know the pillow seems expensive, if it is compared to the super cheap things out there. But hopefully there are people that recognize the artistic value, and those are the people that I am looking for as customers.
Elecia (39:08):
Is your time the most expensive thing in most of your artwork?
Janet (39:13):
It varies. There is a period in time where you had to make your own pixels, before the individually addressable LEDs that we use now came out.
Elecia (39:22):
Were NeoPixels not the best thing ever?
Janet (39:25):
Yeah. It used to cost close to $50 each, per pixel, just in hardware costs. To have that down to pennies now is amazing. So now it is probably back up to my labor and design time being the more expensive part.
Elecia (39:43):
So much has changed in this industry. I remember using three LEDs and wanting to make Christmas lights that you could change the colors of. It was 1990 something.
Janet (39:55):
Mm-hmm.
Elecia (39:55):
It was- <sigh> I really thought about it. I made it a business plan to really think about it all. Then I realized I did not want to deal with the cable harness, and I just could not. And then NeoPixels came out and I was like, "Okay. This is the right way to do it."
Janet (40:18):
Yes.
Elecia (40:19):
Have there been other technologies like that, that you are just like, "Oh. Thank you for finally fixing this"?
Janet (40:27):
<laugh> T
(40:27):
The NeoPixels is the main one. Because, yeah, I spent many years making things with single color LEDs, wired in parallel. So there is just a huge nest of wires inside those things. You were stuck with whatever color the LEDs were. You could not change them later, despite what some of my clients asked for. <laugh>
(40:50):
So now, it is great. You can build something without caring what color you are going to light it up. You do all the programming afterwards, and figure that out. So just being able to buy spools of pre-wired addressable LEDs, that is the game changer for me.
Elecia (41:08):
Do you do most of the programming? Or do you end up handing it off to the tech folk on the musicians'? The show's tech folk?
Janet (41:20):
Yeah. For some projects they want to program it themselves. With the Rockettes it was possible, because we used a system where they visualized it in a simulator, and the content was put on SD cards, that then went into each of the costumes.
(41:34):
Since then, I have migrated to a controller, where the effects engine is running on parameters that I dictate. So the software is really only intended to be used by me, and not the end user. So I will prepare a menu of effects, that the client will approve from video previews. Most people only want to get into that much.
(42:01):
For people that want more control, I will teach them what all the parameters do. And through DMX, they will assign each slider to effect "percent of lights twinkling," or "adjust the background color," and things like that. But the learning curve on that adds a lot of time to the project. For the most part, I am designing effects to meet their requests.
Elecia (42:25):
Have you looked at any of the off the shelf controllers now? Like Pixelblaze?
Janet (42:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have used Pixelblaze for some things. The style of programming is a lot different for me. So I realized the system that I have developed over the years is designed more for visual thinking. I defined a background color, or I can draw a literal bit map that is tiled and moved in space behind the pixels that I have mapped out, and then I apply effects on that, like a wipe or a twinkle.
(42:58):
So I feel like I can be in, I guess, art brain mode and design something very quickly. When I look at the way Pixelblaze programs are generated, I feel like the type of thought that goes into it is to generate certain kinds of patterns. Some things just get really, really hard to do.
(43:18):
With my approach, even though some things are clunky- Like if a client wants a very specific path of LEDs to light up, like this light at the shoulder and then follow a path spiraling around and down the leg and it is yellow, and then this. I can do all of that with my effects generator, without having to make it completely formulaic. If that makes sense.
Elecia (43:46):
It is funny. Ben, who is the creator, Ben Hencke, of Pixelblaze.
Janet (43:51):
Yes, I know Ben.
Elecia (43:52):
Came to, was it our 200th episode party?
Chris (43:56):
Mm-hmm.
Elecia (43:56):
That was so long ago. We were such children. This is going to be 499, just so you are aware that there is some distance.
Janet (44:07):
Oh, wow. I am just missing the big one. Huh? <laugh>
Elecia (44:11):
But Ben came with, I think what was one of the very first Pixelblazes. He had a hat that had the LEDs. Everything was based on functions, usually trigonomic functions like the sine function. And I was like, "How am I supposed to visualize what this means?"
Chris (44:32):
Well, that would be the way I would start with that, though. The way that I think.
Elecia (44:35):
I know. It was really cool. But I see where you might say, "Less formulaic <laugh>," because he does tend to like formulas. Although he has had so much progress.
Chris (44:48):
Way beyond that now.
Elecia (44:49):
It is so far beyond. That was "Cats or hats," was it not?
Chris (44:55):
I do not remember.
Elecia (44:56):
Yeah. Okay. Well, we are not having to party for 500. We are sorry.
Janet (44:59):
<laugh>
Chris (45:00):
Well, we are. But nobody <laugh> else is coming.
Elecia (45:04):
"Cupcakes for all, who are in this room."
Chris (45:06):
Yeah.
Janet (45:06):
<laugh>
Elecia (45:06):
Do you have anything you can envision, that you want from a future controller? If you could just wave your wand and someone gave you the perfect thing. Do you know what that would be?
Janet (45:24):
I do not know. It is always nice as they get smaller, they are easier to hide. Lower power, because batteries are- Yeah, if they become less expensive. I guess that. Aside from my labor, that is still one of the more expensive parts of the system. I do not know. I think my wishlist is more about the LEDs and the fabric side of things, at this point.
Elecia (45:48):
Okay. What do you have?
Janet (45:52):
Oh. <laugh>
Elecia (45:53):
More LEDs? Smaller LEDs? Giant chains of tiny LEDs?
Janet (45:58):
Well, the strings of the popular, I guess, pebble pixels. Or seed pixels, a lot of people call them. Those are great for doing high density thing, but you need to put a sheer layer of fabric on them. You cannot really mount that kind of light in a hole or a grommet. So there are other pixels that I make by hand with lenses on them, so that I can mount them in holes. Have them protrude through an opaque fabric, instead of having a sheer layer covering everything.
(46:28):
So if there were, I do not know, some off the shelf options for that, of strings of lights with little protruding lenses, that would make some things easier. I am working on my own prototypes of them, but I do not really have a way to manufacture them on a big scale.
Elecia (46:46):
What about the fabric?
Janet (46:46):
Oh. A big exciting thing has been the whole print-on-demand revolution for fabric, where you can upload your own graphics and get it printed on lots of different things. I would like that for fake fur.
Chris (47:01):
Mm-hmm!
Elecia (47:01):
<laugh>
Janet (47:04):
Because light diffuses-
Elecia (47:06):
The colors?
Janet (47:06):
Well, to do a pattern, basically.
Elecia (47:09):
Oh.
Janet (47:09):
Light will diffuse really nicely through white or a light color faux fur, but not through black. Years ago I had a polka dot pattern, where I put a light inside each circle. It was a neat effect.
(47:23):
I would like to do more. It is geometric patterns where the black and white is embedded in the fur. There are things you can buy commercially, but I would love to design my own.
Elecia (47:34):
Have you looked at any of the 3D print on what is usually mesh?
Janet (47:40):
Yes. Yes. I am just getting into that. I bought a 3D printer a couple months ago, and I have not had the time to do very much on it yet. But that is definitely on the top of my list of things I want to get into.
Elecia (47:53):
I have seen some people make what looks like armor or scales or claws. I have wondered if you could get some sort of light effect behind those, to leak out.
Janet (48:08):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Definitely. I do a lot of work with stencils. Like if someone wants their name in lights, I will make something that has a sheer part and an opaque part, and then backlight it. So 3D printing things is another good way to do that.
Elecia (48:26):
Yeah. You have a blog that is part of your website.
Janet (48:30):
Yes.
Elecia (48:31):
It talks about some of the things you have discovered with lighting. Do you have any favorite posts? Or things we should look at?
Janet (48:41):
Gee, I am trying to remember. Are you talking about my art website, or my clothing website? I have blogs on both. I tend to use the blog entries to talk about shows, or time sensitive things, or topics that do not fit into the gallery page.
Elecia (49:00):
Which one did I read? I guess I read the one that talked about the "Kaleidoscope Comfort" show. So that must have been your art site.
Janet (49:08):
Yeah. That is on the Janet Hansen art site. Yeah.
Elecia (49:11):
And your costuming site. What is that one?
Janet (49:15):
Enlighted.com.
Elecia (49:17):
And that is without the final E, right?
Janet (49:21):
E N L I G H T E D dot com.
Elecia (49:23):
Hmm. Spelled correctly. Excellent.
Janet (49:25):
<laugh>
Elecia (49:27):
Much easier to remember than the ones that are not.
Janet (49:31):
Some autocorrects change it to "enlightened". That is the problem with having a name like that. And there are so many companies working with light that have variations on it. As a joke, I bought embraided.com.
Elecia (49:42):
<laugh>
Janet (49:42):
Yeah, it is an ongoing thing.
Elecia (49:48):
Well, Janet, do you have any thoughts you would like to leave us with?
Janet (49:52):
Yeah, I guess I would like to share the message that art is good for you, and encourage people to find time in your life to experience it or make it. And yeah, I guess that is it.
Elecia (50:06):
Thank you very much. Our guest has been Janet Hansen, LED Artist, Lighted Clothing Designer, and founder of Enlighted Designs.
Chris (50:16):
Thanks, Janet.
Janet (50:17):
Yeah. Thank you so much. This has been great.
Elecia (50:19):
Thank you to Christopher for producing and co-hosting. Thank you for Debra for introducing me to Janet. Thank you to Mouser for sponsoring the show. And thank you for listening. You can always contact us at show@embedded.fm or hit the contact link on embedded.fm.
(50:34):
And now a quote to leave you with, from René Descartes, "An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?"