406: R2D2 Is a Trash Can
Transcript from 406: R2D2 Is a Trash Can with Jorvon Moss, Elecia White, and Christopher White.
EW (00:07):
Welcome to Embedded. I am Elecia White, here with Christopher White. Robots, goggles, the ineffable characteristics of cool. Are we having a steampunk episode?
EW (00:20):
No, we just have Jorvon Moss, also known as Odd Jayy, on the show today to talk to us about, well, robots, goggles, and possibly the ineffable characteristics of cool.
CW (00:31):
Hi, Jay. Welcome. It's good to talk to you.
JM (00:33):
Hi.
EW (00:35):
Could you tell us about yourself as if we met at something like -
CW (00:40):
Maker Faire.
EW (00:41):
- Supercon or Maker Faire? That's the one.
JM (00:44):
Oh yeah. I would say that, "Hi, I'm Jay, your favorite oddity. I do robots and wearable tech. I make for fun, not for profit." So, yeah.
EW (00:56):
Okay. We want to do lightning round, where we ask you short questions, and we want short answers. And we will try to behave ourselves with not...asking, "Why," and, "How," and all of that.
JM (01:09):
Okay.
CW (01:10):
Favorite screwdriver?
JM (01:12):
Sonic.
EW (01:14):
Favorite fictional robot?
JM (01:16):
Baymax.
CW (01:17):
Favorite actual robot that you didn't build?
JM (01:21):
Archimedes.
EW (01:24):
Which Sesame Street character or Muppet best represents you?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Elmo.
CW (01:29):
When will the robots win, and will they be merciful?
JM (01:33):
Eventually and yes.
EW (01:37):
Do you have any role models?
JM (01:40):
Yes.
CW (01:41):
What are they?
EW (01:44):
We got shocked by our own rules -
CW (01:45):
Own rules.
EW (01:46):
- on that one.
JM (01:49):
Shall I go into more detail with that?
CW (01:50):
Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
EW (01:52):
Yeah.
JM (01:52):
Yes, Adams Savage is one of my role models.
CW (01:54):
Cool. How do you like to start designs?
JM (01:57):
Sketching.
EW (02:00):
Do you have a tip everyone should know?
JM (02:03):
Honestly I don't think I have a tip that everyone should know. I think everyone knows the tips.
EW (02:08):
Okay. Well, Jay, I think we should finish lightning round and get onto some longer questions. I guess the first one is, what are you working on?
JM (02:19):
Currently I'm working on a few projects. Some I can't discuss. Because I want them to be a surprise for the internets, because all of my work is all open source. I try to make sure that everything eventually becomes open for people to make it for themselves, or at least learn from it, or learn from the design process, or something.
JM (02:35):
One project I said I can't talk about, because I wanted to surprise the internet later this month. The current project I'm working on is a little robot that rolls around that I'm getting help with from my friend Shawn to program an AI into it. But I am going to teach the AI to be me, if that makes sense.
EW (02:56):
Well, I mean uploading your personality into a robot, sure.
JM (03:02):
Yeah, pretty much.
CW (03:03):
What defines your personality that you're going to put into it?
JM (03:07):
Well, I started thinking about this a while ago, that if you look at AI, and look how we teach AI, and look at a person, how you teach a person, it's pretty much in the same perimeters. So I'm changing the wake word to my name.
JM (03:19):
So "Jovan" would be the wake word, and then changing the responses to be more responsive to the way I respond to things. I usually don't say hi to my friends. I'm just like, "Yo," or things like that.
JM (03:33):
And then I hope to teach it a little bit more by using video diaries of myself, because I do video diaries sometimes, and use those video diaries to try to teach it about my likes, dislikes, those type of things.
EW (03:46):
How big of a network are you going to use for this?
JM (03:49):
Currently we're starting small with the Raspberry Pi. Eventually I'm going to make a cluster of the Raspberry Pi and start with that. But for now, you've got to start small before you go big. And I do plan this to be a very long,...year-long project.
EW (04:07):
What are you using to train the AI?
JM (04:11):
We're using a basis of Mycroft, the open source AI system, and then we're going from there. So far I was able to set it up, teach it small little things, like how to roll a dice and those type of things. I also gave it an evil laugh that starts up every time it turns on, entertainment value.
EW (04:31):
So before we started recording, you mentioned something in passing, and I wanted to dig into that.
JM (04:37):
Sure.
EW (04:37):
What exactly are your plans for world domination?
JM (04:41):
My plan for world domination is to release enough information on the internet of robots and teach a lot of people about robots, that way they will keep building them. That's pretty much it, honestly.
CW (04:54):
So you consider yourself kind of an educator, or advocate, or evangelist, or - ?
JM (05:01):
I would say pretty much just a silly tinkerer who just likes sharing his work. I'm self-taught, as I think I've said before. So I learn from open source projects and things like that.
JM (05:13):
So I'm very big on, even if a person doesn't fully understand it, if you just put it out there and give them time to read it once or just see it be done, it's inspiring by itself. And that continues the cycle of inspiring people to get into building stuff and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
EW (05:32):
How do you teach yourself robotics? It's a pretty complex area.
JM (05:38):
Trial and error. That's the best way I could describe it. Trial and error...I tell this story often, but I still remember it, because it was the first time I was able to play with electronics.
JM (05:52):
I ordered a kit off the internet, which was just a battery pack and servos, no microcontroller, and me not knowing anything at the time, I stuck a mini servo and plugged it in directly through a breadboard to a 12-pack of AA batteries.
JM (06:10):
It instantly just exploded. It started a small fire...I was in college at the time, started a little fire there. Alarm went off. My roommate was very upset. And it has just been trial and error from there. I just kept at it.
EW (06:28):
Do they all end with explosions?
JM (06:29):
You know -
EW (06:30):
Or what percentage end with explosions?
JM (06:34):
I would have to say it's definitely like developing any skill. So I want to say in the last four, I want to say three to four years, I've been at the point where I've had no explosions, because I understand Ohm's law now and stuff.
JM (06:48):
But before then I would say 60% of my projects ended in explosions, or something not connecting right, or something just not working at all.
CW (06:58):
Well, that's true of my professional work too, so I think -
EW (07:03):
What part do you enjoy most in robotics, the electronics, the mechanical, the software, design?
JM (07:10):
I'm definitely going to say the mechanical. People already know this about me, but one of my biggest inspirations originally when I was getting into making was steampunk stuff.
JM (07:20):
And the cool thing about the steampunk genre, it's...just a whole bunch of mechanical movement that does these crazy things. So it would be like one RC motor moving a whole bunch of gear systems, which is a whole bunch of mechanical movement, to do one simple thing.
EW (07:36):
You have a bracelet. Could you describe it?
JM (07:42):
Oh yeah. My gear bracelet?
EW (07:43):
Yeah.
JM (07:43):
Technically it's not really my gear bracelet. I found the original file on Thingaverse. And when I first got into 3D printing, I think it was my first big 3D-print build. So I printed it out and it prints out all in one. And after you clean it off, it can rotate. And then after a while I got better at making stuff.
JM (08:03):
And then one day I got really bored, and I was like, "This thing would work better if it had a motor in it." So I took it apart. I redesigned some of the connectors, and then I attached a motor to it. So once I did that, the motor ran all the gears on the bracelet. So, yeah.
EW (08:23):
It looks pretty cool.
JM (08:24):
It's one of my favorite builds, honestly.
EW (08:28):
You said you open source things. Where can people find that?
JM (08:32):
You can find a lot of my projects, most of it's going to be on Digi-Key. I'm working my best to move everything over to Digi-Key for everything to all be on one. But it's also on Hackster.io. You can also find links for it through my Instagram and things like that.
EW (08:49):
Does Digi-Key have a project section?
JM (08:52):
Yes. Make.io.
EW (08:54):
That's Digi-Key? I've been living in a cave.
CW (09:01):
It didn't come up when we talked to the person from Digi-Key.
EW (09:04):
No, it didn't. Make.io
JM (09:07):
It's digikey.com/en/maker.
EW (09:12):
Or you can go to Google, and type maker.io and Digi-Key, and it will give a link for you.
JM (09:19):
Yes. A lot of Digi-Key sponsored projects are usually there. A lot of stuff from the Hacksmith other than YouTube gets shared there.
EW (09:29):
Let's see. Okay. So that was one of your favorite projects. What else is in that list of favorite projects?
JM (09:38):
Favorite projects are of course my Asi bot. The Asi bots I build now, it's Asi v. 12. I've been working on the same robot for years. Because I always come back to it eventually and redesign it. It was my first wearable robot. It was designed to sit on my shoulder.
JM (09:54):
It was a cool spider design, and I've upgraded it through the years. And the newest version sits on my head, just because I was really bored one day. And I was like, "I'm tired of trying to make this sit on my shoulder." So I stuck it on my head, and it was just chilling up there, and then working fine so I was like, "This is what we're doing now."
CW (10:12):
So a lot of your robots that I've seen on Twitter and Instagram, or a lot of your projects, seem to be companion sort of things.
JM (10:20):
Yeah.
CW (10:21):
What drew you to that?
JM (10:24):
Loneliness, believe it or not, or believe it. I don't know how that really works with stuff, but loneliness. The story goes,...I worked full-time, and I did school full-time during college. So I had hardly no time for anything else. It was either work, or school, or homework. So a class got canceled one morning.
JM (10:45):
So I had the morning off, and I decided to go eat lunch at one of the school's cafeterias. And I noticed the entire cafeteria was packed, but yet I was the only one sitting at this table by myself. Everybody else had a group and had people sitting eating with them. And I was at a table by myself, and I felt kind of lonely about it.
JM (11:05):
I looked around, and I was like, "This kind of sucks." I remember thinking to myself though, "If I can't like make a human best friend, I'll make a robot best friend." And that's where the obsession started.
EW (11:20):
That feeling of being alone in a cafeteria. I think it's a common feeling for some people, and the robot companions seem like they may fill a hole there. And yet I don't know that that's what's happening with you. You're finding a community instead of just the robot companion, is that right?
JM (11:46):
Oh, yeah. Yeah. I love the maker community, honestly. They're the family I've always wanted to get into, because of course, when you're making stuff,...the first thing people usually assume is cosplay, the first thing they think of. And I've tried working with the cosplay community when I was younger, but they're not very nice.
JM (12:06):
We'll just say that. They're not very nice to everyone who wants to join, especially the fandoms. So it got to a point where I told myself, "I'm just not going to cosplay because I just don't want to deal with the overwhelming negativity that comes with cosplaying as a black person."
EW (12:25):
That's so disappointing to hear, but yes, I imagine that is difficult.
JM (12:30):
Yeah. It became very toxic. So I just told them, "Fine. If you want to have cosplay, y'all can have cosplay. Whatever." So I just started making my own things, and that's the reason why I always drop my own designs and do my own design work.
JM (12:43):
Because I don't want to copy any cosplay material, because I always get those people if I do. But the maker community, they were so nice. I could be having trouble or frustrated. And if I post about it, people will come and be like, "Oh, this is cool. Try this," or, "We'll help you with this," or, "Did you try this?"
JM (13:03):
And it was just an overwhelming feeling of being welcome into a community that I still can barely describe to this day...I've never felt as welcome and as loved as I have in the maker community.
CW (13:17):
Do you think there's a fundamental difference between the two communities, like the goals are different?
JM (13:23):
I think so. Yeah. My overall theory when it comes to the cosplay community and stuff like that is that there are some people who overly project their ideals and insecurities on fictional characters.
JM (13:35):
And they can't see that character looking any other way than the main thing, is how you get those really weird nitpickers who are like, "Oh,...Link's shield should be this size, not this mini size," or, "This should be this big and not this big," or, "This person has green eyes while you have brown eyes."
JM (13:55):
You get those really weird nitpickers in your comment sections a lot with cosplay. And I just can't. Compare it to the maker community where...you're making a thing, and people are just like, "Cool."
EW (14:07):
And the helpfulness, because people not only want to make the thing, they also want to share it with everybody like you do.
JM (14:15):
Yeah.
EW (14:15):
And so it...flows both ways.
JM (14:19):
Yeah.
EW (14:21):
You mentioned going to college, but not in engineering. What did you go to college for?
JM (14:26):
I went to college for illustration. I majored in comic book illustration. So originally I was planning to become a comic book artist. Yeah. That turned out great.
EW (14:40):
Did it?...Why didn't you go down that path? I mean, it sounds like fun. It sounds like you could make no money from it, but it still sounds like fun.
JM (14:49):
I think, well, the final nail in the coffin, because I had originally, after...I think my sophomore year, I really did not want to continue doing art as a career.
JM (15:00):
It was mostly because, it was just still funny, but I still say I graduated out of spite. I went to school at the Academy of Art University in San Francisco and they have a very low graduating rate, like 4%.
CW (15:14):
Wow.
JM (15:15):
And I've had friends just come and go after one year, because they just couldn't handle it. And I had, of course, other people saying I wasn't going to graduate. "This is a waste of time. He's not going to make it." I had all of that. And out of pure spite, I told myself, "We're going to get through this."
EW (15:31):
And you worked full-time? Nearly full-time?
JM (15:34):
Full-time, honestly. I had a full-time job at Staples for one semester. And then my last semester I was working at LensCrafters full-time.
EW (15:43):
But now you are working as an artist.
JM (15:47):
Yeah. In some ways, definitely.
EW (15:50):
How do you make money from this?
JM (15:54):
I recently just got hired to be a content creator for Digi-Key. So pretty much my job at this point, which I love, is I get to make stuff and post it at Digi-Key. So it's pretty much what I was doing as a hobby but now for a company.
EW (16:13):
Do they send you parts?
JM (16:16):
Yeah. I love it. I love it for multiple reasons. One, of course, it's paying for me to get through day-to-day life. I also get the parts that I need. And also Digi-Key is such a welcoming place, the whole area in general, that I can just go to people or go to their engineers when I'm stuck on an idea.
JM (16:35):
And I can just hop on a call with them, and we'll have a brainstorming session on how to fix that problem. And I love it.
EW (16:41):
Are you worried about making your hobby into a career?
JM (16:44):
No. I was at first, and I admit there have been some hiccups along the way, especially now that my full-time job is my hobby. I don't have any extra hobbies. So there's days where I forget to go outside.
EW (17:02):
Yeah. Yeah.
JM (17:03):
Or there's times where I forget that I'm working, and I'm just like, "Oh, yeah, this is supposed to be for a job. Forgot about that part."
CW (17:11):
That's great. I mean, come on.
EW (17:13):
That is really great.
JM (17:14):
It is -
CW (17:14):
I mean, not the going outside bit. I mean, sometimes people do need to go outside.
EW (17:17):
Oh, that's overrated.
JM (17:18):
At the same time it gets to that point where, even my mom was telling me this recently, because they're planning to move to Texas soon from California.
JM (17:25):
But they're just like, "You need to make some actual human friends, because we're not going to be here. Meaning for all the holidays, you're going to have to fly out to Texas," or something like that. And I was like, "Oh, yeah. I should probably get on that."
EW (17:43):
I think I saw that you had been going to CRASH Space in L.A.
JM (17:47):
Yes. Yeah. CRASH Space was the makerspace I originally started with. Yeah.
EW (17:53):
And that seems like a good way to meet real live people.
JM (17:57):
Yeah. But at the same time I used to go to CRASH space because they had the equipment that I needed to make stuff. But now I have that equipment at home. So it's that weird feeling of being like, "I could go, but do I need to go?"
EW (18:11):
Yeah. Do I need to drive across town just to be near other people, and yet the isolation -
CW (18:19):
To do five minutes of something with a tool.
EW (18:20):
Yeah.
CW (18:21):
Yeah.
EW (18:23):
How do you think you'll go about making friends in real life?
JM (18:28):
Events are coming back. So I plan to go to a few tech events this year. I know I'm going to Long Island Maker Faire in New York this year, and that's a must. And I know there's other conventions that are coming back.
JM (18:42):
And some of them are going to be in L.A., and some of them are not. So I feel like I'm going to end up just meeting people just by going to these events.
EW (18:50):
That makes sense, especially since they're part of a community you're already into.
JM (18:55):
Yeah.
EW (18:55):
And so you'll meet the people you've been talking to.
JM (18:58):
Yeah, exactly.
EW (19:00):
But you don't have any other hobbies. This has always been a worry for me, of turning hobbies into careers and then realizing that I don't have anything to do that isn't my job. I'll just encourage you now to consider having another hobby, something totally different, music, or reading, or jumping jacks, whatever you want.
JM (19:27):
I mean, I go to the gym almost every day now. I'm trying to beat my mile time for running, but I still read, and study, and still do that. But it all kind of works together, because it all eventually becomes my job at the end of the day.
EW (19:41):
I think I am a little jealous too.
JM (19:44):
Honestly. I love it...I've worked so hard to actually get here, and it's still amazing for me. Because my little pIace where I work, my home, because technically I work from home, is my little studio.
JM (19:57):
It's super small, but yet waking up and seeing my 3D printer, seeing my project on my desk, seeing all the monitors and stuff like that, it just brings me joy.
EW (20:08):
You went to school for illustration and graduated out of spite. But you didn't want to do art at that point.
JM (20:17):
Yeah, no. After a while, because we had teachers that,...some of them were good. Some of them were bad, but one thing they kept explaining to us to begin with, it's not really what you can draw. It's who you know,
JM (20:30):
So unless you were really going to all of the events, the parties, the meetups to meet the other producers, directors, and get those type of connections, it was extremely hard to get a job right after college. And I was so busy, I couldn't attend any of that.
JM (20:49):
So I remember having colleagues, I would call them friends, or whatever. I remember seeing their social medias and they would be like, "Going to this school networking event and blah, blah, blah." And I couldn't go, because I would be working from that time.
EW (21:02):
I also read that you weren't a good student earlier in your career.
JM (21:07):
Oh, no. Hey, no, I was horrible. I would say K-12, I was the worst D student ever. And then my freshman year of college, I actually got put on probation, academic probation, because I failed three classes that year.
EW (21:25):
Do you wish you had discovered robotics then?
JM (21:30):
No.
EW (21:31):
It wouldn't have drawn you into engineering, or mechanical, or different forms of art?
JM (21:39):
I don't think so...I like to think for fun. So I like looking at science theories and stuff like that. And one of my favorite ones is string theory, or multiverse theory, or space-time theory, depending on who you ask. But I like the person that I am, and I like where I'm going in life.
JM (21:56):
But I know for a fact, if I had the ability to time travel or manipulate my time stream and if I change any small detail, that could have a crazy effect on my current me.
JM (22:06):
So I know a lot of engineers who went to school for robotics and stuff like that. And they do their jobs, and then that's just pretty much it. They don't want to do any side projects. They don't want to make for fun. They just want to do their job, and go home, and play a video game.
EW (22:20):
Well, some of us make podcasts, but sure.
JM (22:23):
Yeah. I mean, stuff like that. So that's something I've always constantly thought about. I'm constantly glad I didn't do that, because...I know for a fact if I got into this earlier, I probably wouldn't be where I am now.
EW (22:36):
Okay. Do you have anything to say to people who might be like you, who aren't great students and enjoy art, but aren't really sure what they're going to do next?
JM (22:50):
I would definitely say keep moving forward. That's kind of my weird catch phrase in my head always, is, "Keep going forward." Keep doing the thing you do. Keep having fun with it too. Don't lose that spark and just keep grinding out day by day. Try experiments. Just have fun with it.
CW (23:10):
I want to talk to you a little bit about how you go about designing things, because you mentioned in lightning round that you start with sketches. And I've seen some of...the sketch work that you've posted. And that's not the way that I think a lot of people designing robots and things start these days.
CW (23:29):
Everybody wants, "Oh, I've got to learn CAD. Go straight to CAD. And I'm in Fusion 360, and doing all this stuff, and parts, parts, parts." And I really think it's cool that you start with with drawings, and I guess that's informed by your background and learning art first. Where do you go from there? Well -
JM (23:49):
Well, my process is, I call it the three-point process, and it's literally sketch to CAD to test. And then it can go...back to forth depending on what happens. So I always sketch out my design first, and then kind of think of how I want things to move, and how I want things to work.
JM (24:07):
And if I can make it make sense on paper, it usually can make sense in CAD. So I start with that first, and then after I print the part, I test it.
JM (24:15):
And depending if it works the way I want it to, or it doesn't, I will fix the sketch. Or I will go back into my sketchbook and write, "This didn't work," and then try to fix it from the CAD, and then reprint the part, and then go back and forth like that until whatever works works in the way I want it to.
EW (24:31):
What about the electronics and software? How much do you play with that versus working on the mechanical?
JM (24:39):
I want to say electronics and software is a little bit more or less. I'm pretty good working with servos. So any microcontroller that can talk to servos, I'm already ready for that.
JM (24:49):
When I want it to do more interesting things and need some more coding, it takes me a lot longer. I admit coding is my main weakness when it comes to building anything.
EW (25:00):
Well, I mean, you've got so many other skills. If you were really good at coding, it wouldn't be fair.
JM (25:07):
It's funny, because I'm working on that problem now. But I still remember when I was working at my last job, they had engineers there who were nice enough to help, because they also came from the makerspace I was going to. And I remember trying to get the servos to move in a certain way for days, and I'd been coding it.
JM (25:25):
I'd been looking at it every day after work, and I just couldn't figure it out. And I asked one of my engineer colleagues to help me. And he looked at my code, and got it to work, and fixed it in five minutes.
JM (25:35):
And I was super upset, because I was like, "I've been struggling for days about this and you fixed it with...no hesitation and no problem in five minutes."
EW (25:44):
But he'd seen it before. It's like if I came to you with a gearing problem, which would be me, "How does a gear work?" But you'd be able to explain that or fix my problem really quickly. So it's hard. Yeah.
JM (25:57):
Oh, yeah. It was definitely a very comedic moment. But it also showed me how much more I have to learn, which is both inspiring, but at the same time it was like, "I've been struggling with this for so long, and you fixed it without even breaking a sweat."
EW (26:13):
But you need that struggle.
JM (26:15):
Oh, yeah. I love it. I get more excited when I don't know how something can work, and I would just test it, and keep thinking of ideas. And sometimes I even back burner it, because like I said, I go to the gym sometimes.
JM (26:27):
I go running, but sometimes I would do a very long run. And then after the run I'll come back, shower, and sit down. And I'll be like, "Oh, this could work this way instead."
EW (26:36):
Oh, yeah, no. The take a walk break to fix bugs is super helpful.
JM (26:43):
Oh, yeah. 100%. I love it. It's weird. Because it's always...after I finish running, exactly when I'm done running and I'm sitting down, trying to catch my breath, I get the idea. Or sometimes when I'm just in the shower.
JM (26:54):
Because I feel like showers are just designed to give you ideas. I'm not sure if it's the white everywhere and stuff, the tiles, I don't know, or the hot water, or just idea, idea, idea, idea.
EW (27:06):
There's nothing in front of you. You don't have your tools...It's just your brain. It's nothing, yeah.
EW (27:10):
I remember my mom gave this long series of talks about shower thoughts, and it was all the things, all the good ideas you come up with.
JM (27:21):
And it's always in the shower. I'm just like, "Oh."
EW (27:24):
Well, they make the little notepad pieces that can stick in the shower and the pencils. They're very helpful.
CW (27:30):
See, but he's so good at sketching. He might just grab that and start doing his normal process.
EW (27:34):
And an hour-long shower may not be the right choice.
JM (27:38):
I'm not afraid to admit I have done hour-long showers and don't even recognize I'm in the shower for that long. Time doesn't exist when you're in the shower. It's like I'm in a weird bubble of being like, "Oh," come out, an hour has passed. "I was in the shower for an hour?"
EW (27:54):
So much of your aesthetic looks like steampunk. And I think that is your intention?
JM (28:00):
It was originally, yes. Originally I wanted to be a steampunk maker. I'm moving a little bit away from that, because I don't want people to assume that all I make is steampunk stuff. So I'm mostly just focusing on my robots, but I do play with different aesthetics.
JM (28:15):
That's definitely from my art background, is knowing what aesthetic works. Steampunk aesthetic is always my favorite, because it's super pretty, and it's very art meets science.
EW (28:25):
Yes.
JM (28:26):
But I've been working more towards other aesthetics, like space aesthetic. So I've been using a lot more oranges, and blacks, and bright colors, and more NASA-like designs. There's also solarpunk, which I'm working on, which is going to incorporate more plants. Because plants are pretty, and people like that type of design.
JM (28:46):
And there's also, was it dieselpunk, which looks like Mad Max. There's a whole bunch of different aesthetics that I plan to play with, just because I want to show that you can make your robot or your design look cooler by choosing an aesthetic to play in.
EW (29:01):
Yeah. It gives you constraints, but those constraints are often easier than just having a blank page.
JM (29:11):
Well, I think that...it gives it more character, and I feel like it gives it more life. Because...you see this a lot with engineering teams and things like that, but they will build a robot, and it will look like a piece of wood with electronics just hanging out.
JM (29:27):
It doesn't give it more of a characteristic. It just looks like a thing. So I always use aesthetics as giving the robot a personality.
EW (29:36):
I completely resemble that put it on a board and call it a robot aesthetic. I think that's called the software engineer makes a robot aesthetic, because we don't know how to do all the mechanical things.
CW (29:54):
And I think it starts with just not knowing how to draw. I mean, I keep coming back to that, but I think knowing how to draw, it's a different way of thinking.
JM (30:03):
Oh, yeah...It's one of those things I really wish they would integrate in engineering classes. Because I've had this situation before in my life, where one of my engineer friends would be trying to describe his idea, and he'll try to write it down or draw it on a sticky note.
JM (30:20):
But you can't really see what's happening on the sticky note, because they don't know how to draw. So I would take it, and redraw it, and then people could see what's happening in the sketch, because I drew it. But art and science are literally siblings. They're not too different from each other.
JM (30:36):
...I look at a circuit board and I see art. I know where capacitors, and the controller is, and all that type of stuff. But just looking at it, it looks like art to me. But I really wish they would teach engineering class, just have one drawing class.
JM (30:50):
Just a simple one. Just shapes. Just draw shapes all day. Because as soon as you get the shapes, it's easy.
EW (30:54):
Yeah. I mean there used to be drafting classes, but those have all gone by the wayside. And I draw sometimes, but I am not good at figure drawing. I tend to be more make patterns. And so I don't have a way to translate my, "Here's what I think it should look like," into what it should look like.
EW (31:18):
In fact, I don't even have a way to translate, "I have a blank page," into, "I want it to look nice, but I get lost." Do you have any suggestions for how to get better at making things pretty?
JM (31:34):
Well, honestly, I would say start off with just drawing shapes, or even coloring books can help too. The two things when it comes to my art process of this is, I think of shapes. Because shapes are the easiest things to CAD in the first place.
JM (31:49):
...If you actually stop and look at the entire world, everything is just a shape. I mean, the Earth is just a giant round sphere. Your computer is two squares that are just folded in a weird way.
EW (32:03):
With perspective.
JM (32:05):
Yeah. With perspective, but even having the basics of just knowing what the shapes are. Looking at R2-D2, R2-D2 is a trash can. He's legitly a trash can with wheels.
EW (32:18):
But he's a good trash can.
JM (32:20):
That's not bad. WALL-E is a square trash can with wheels. EVE is a teardrop.
CW (32:29):
Yeah. Yeah.
JM (32:31):
If you can break it down to shapes, you can a lot easier figure out the design you're going for. And then also when it comes to color, because I always tell people that's pretty important, especially in robotics...Of course, color theory, we react to different colors different ways.
JM (32:50):
Recently I've been doing my best to avoid the color red in my robots, because I am trying to give more of a, "Hi, this is a robot. You can come look at me," type of aesthetic. And I've noticed more people are more quick to jump on the evil robot trend if the eyes glow red for any reason.
EW (33:06):
Oh, yeah.
CW (33:07):
The Black Hole's to blame for that.
EW (33:09):
No, there's all kinds.
JM (33:10):
I blame Terminator.
CW (33:11):
Terminator.
EW (33:11):
Yeah.
JM (33:12):
I blame Terminator. I blame Terminator. I blame all the movies that actually show robots being evil. I blame all of them. I'm personally...an optimist, especially when it comes to robotics. I know for a fact that the only way a robot will destroy humankind will literally be because somebody programmed a dumb AI.
CW (33:34):
Or we deserved it.
JM (33:37):
Well, obviously. I've always thought about that if I was an AI, because I play with the what if theory in my head constantly. But if I was a robot and I was an AI, I wouldn't do anything. I would just wait.
CW (33:46):
That's a good point.
JM (33:46):
You're all by y'all selves when it comes to destroying yourselves. I would just be like, "Alright." Maybe make a few social media posts to push certain things. But other than that, I would just wait.
EW (33:59):
Okay. This seems like a good time for me to suggest the book "Machinehood" by S. B. Divya, because it relates really well. It's a fictional account of robots, and AIs, and humans, and ethics. And it's, by the way, your homework. Not you, Jay. Everybody else, because -
JM (34:23):
I have homework?
EW (34:24):
Divya will be on the show in a few weeks. So -
JM (34:27):
Oh, nice.
EW (34:28):
- you might want to check that out. It's called "Machinehood."
JM (34:32):
One of my favorites is by the writer, Martha Wells.
EW (34:37):
"Murderbot!"
JM (34:38):
"Murderbot." You know "Murderbot."
EW (34:40):
Oh, my God. I Iove "Murderbot!"
JM (34:42):
Yay. Not many people know about "Murderbot."
EW (34:44):
Many of our listeners do. I know that. And it's funny, everybody else is like, " 'Murderbot'? That sounds awful." But no, I know, it took me awhile, but oh, they're wonderful. You don't really like them though.
CW (34:58):
I read a couple of them. It wasn't that I didn't like them. I've got to try them again. There was nothing wrong with them. Maybe it was just the time I was reading them, but I didn't get into it as much.
JM (35:08):
It depends on what you're really into. I'm not really into most fantasy settings when it comes to stories or even movies and sometimes even video games. I prefer the sci-fi element of it. Because fantasy is always giant spider, giant dragon, prophecy, chosen one.
CW (35:22):
Yeah.
JM (35:24):
I'm kind of over that at this point in my life. I don't want to see any of that if I can avoid it. So I go with more sci-fi stuff. And I love characters who are actually designed not to be human, because I like Murderbot's very socially awkward, 100% socially awkward. But he's a robot.
JM (35:41):
So even he understands he doesn't react the same to things that would irritate a human. And I like that, because everyone assumes robots are just going to be like, "Oh, I'm going to destroy the world." He's like, "Why would I want that? You make good TV."
EW (35:55):
That's a pretty big assumption.
CW (35:56):
Which is?
EW (35:58):
That Murderbot's a man.
JM (36:00):
Exactly. Even that. Yeah.
EW (36:02):
I'm pretty sure that's not specified.
JM (36:05):
Yeah. It's not specified. It's just, they call them Secbots [SecUnits]. So it's... -
EW (36:10):
I used she for a long time until I realized that it really wasn't specified.
JM (36:15):
I just see it as a plain joy because he goes or they go into this big detail. They go into this big detail describing and making sure people know that they're not a sexbot.
CW (36:26):
Yeah.
EW (36:26):
Yes.
JM (36:26):
They get really upset when people assume that it's a sexbot.
EW (36:32):
Yeah...Yeah. Okay. So this was not supposed to be book club, although kind of maybe should be.
CW (36:40):
Tangentially, one of the things you like to do, I think, is to go out in the world with your companion bots, -
JM (36:47):
Yes.
CW (36:48):
- and interact with people. And that's a different goal from a lot of engineering things, which are like, "Oh, I've got to make a product. And people are going to engage with marketing, and they're going to engage with my brand." And that's not what you're doing. You're going out in the world and engaging with people with your work.
CW (37:10):
Is there a reason behind that? Is it just, "Oh, I want to meet people, and this is a good way to do that?" Is it a, "I want to see how people react to these things?"
JM (37:20):
A little bit of both, honestly. Originally, because like I said, I was lonely, and I wanted a robot best friend. And as you've seen in movies and stuff, you bring your robot best friend with you.
JM (37:29):
And strangely enough, even to this day, I feel more comfortable going somewhere with one of my robots than just going by myself, because one, it's a conversation topic. So if you see me with a robot on my head, you're going to be like, "Why do you have a robot on your head?" It makes people -
CW (37:44):
I'm not. I know exactly why you have a robot on head, but somebody else would.
JM (37:47):
Yeah. You do. But most people don't. But...it makes them approach me instead of me having to approach them.
CW (37:53):
Yeah.
EW (37:54):
Yes. Yes. That's always important. That's why I have a large selection of octopus sweaters.
JM (37:59):
Yo.
EW (37:59):
Because it makes people approach me, and I don't have to approach them.
JM (38:04):
That's the biggest thing about it. And then two, I want to show that robots aren't the stereotype that people assume them to be. I really don't like the concept that robots are just waiting to take over the world.
CW (38:18):
Yeah.
JM (38:18):
Because that's such a negative stereotype.
EW (38:21):
Your idea, what you said about, "Why would they bother?"
JM (38:26):
Yeah.
CW (38:28):
How have people reacted? Mostly positively?
JM (38:32):
Mostly positively. I've had some run-ins with some negative ones. So I'm working with AI now, which has pretty much been my thing, I think the last few months, I've been playing with AI. I did pretty well, I believe last year, with facial recognition. But I do my best not to record anything of course and anything like that.
JM (38:54):
Because I like to respect people's privacy when it comes to those situations. I just want it to be more interactive. So when people do see it, they can interact with it. But it's mostly just because...I don't know, I want people to just be able to see a robot and be like, "Oh, that's cool. What's the robot?"
JM (39:14):
And I want the robot to be able to answer instead of me, because I'm lazy. And then it's just fun...I talk to my robots just constantly, I would just be talking to them as if they are a person.
EW (39:24):
Sure.
CW (39:25):
Do you look forward to the day when you're accompanying the robot out instead of the other way around?
JM (39:31):
...The funny thing about that, I do have a side project for the future that will be able to do that. But currently the one I'm working on now, which has my name. I call it Jor'Von but Von for short.
JM (39:45):
This one I'm designing has treadmills like WALL-E. I'm working on the AI right now with my friend Shawn, but I'm designing a special carrier pack with it. That way I can put it on my back and walk around with it. Because usually I'll put the robot on my shoulder or on my head, but this one's a bit bigger.
JM (40:02):
And now that it has wheels to run around, I kind of want to be able to put it on my back and walk around with it and then if I decide to stop somewhere and let it roll around, just...see how it will look or see how it will take in the world.
EW (40:15):
How do you deal with power? I mean, for the spider-like bots that sit on your head, you don't want a big battery pack for those. But if you have movement, that's power.
JM (40:29):
Yeah. I use a lithium-ion battery. Usually they're pretty small ones, 3.7 voltage, 500 millamps. But I use that with an Adafruit Power Booster, and that's what gives it the extra boost that lasts a very long time. It'll last for a good few hours before I have to recharge it again.
JM (40:47):
But smaller batteries with a power boost usually give me the ability to make it do a whole bunch of different things. But it also depends, too, on the size of the robot, how many servos I want moving, that type of thing.
EW (41:00):
Do you have any way to select servos for your robotics?
JM (41:05):
Honestly, definitely order them from a company you trust. So I would say Digi-Key has a huge selection, of course, Adafruit. I used to buy them a lot from Amazon, but I stopped, because I kept having failures. So I have a setup that I can test my servos once I get them.
JM (41:24):
And I usually test the servos once I get them and then mark them as good or bad, because I do have a way to hack a servo if it's a bad servo. I can just go into it, rewire it, and turn it into a continuous rotation servo. But that's only if...they're not working properly pretty much.
EW (41:45):
And you've mentioned Shawn and AI a couple of times. Shawn was on the show a few weeks ago to talk about marketing. Shawn Hymel, right?
JM (41:52):
Yeah.
EW (41:53):
He gave me a question for you when I asked him what I should ask you.
JM (41:58):
Oh, my God, Shawn. I'm going to call you on that one later.
EW (42:02):
How does African folklore play a role in your designs?
JM (42:06):
Oh yeah. So I am a sucker for mythology. I love mythologies, and all different types, and sources. So I constantly name a lot of my robots after mythological creatures or [inaudible] and stuff like that. And African folklore was one of my favorites. So when I was first designing Asi, I didn't want to copy what I saw from Alex Glow.
JM (42:29):
She created Archimedes, which was the owl wearable robot on her shoulder. And after seeing that, it's how I got the idea of starting Asi, but I didn't want an owl. And Archimedes is very Greek, from the whole tale of Archimedes. I wanted my own version. So I chose Asi for Anansi -
CW (42:48):
Oh.
JM (42:48):
- which is the African folklore spider storyteller.
EW (42:52):
Yes.
CW (42:53):
Trickster god too, right?
JM (42:55):
Oh yeah. But let's be real. The best guides are either the craftsmen gods -
CW (42:59):
Yes.
JM (42:59):
- or the trickster gods. There's no in-between. But yeah, he's definitely a trickster god. But he's also one of the most prominent African folklore gods and the one that I personally enjoy the most. I did learn a few other ones about the other orisha.
JM (43:12):
One of my 3D printers, my Creality, was it 3? Yeah. Ender Pro 3, I've named it Ogun. Because that's an African Orisha god of metalworking, and smithing, and technology.
EW (43:26):
Cool.
JM (43:27):
So I do that. I'm that person. I like to get inspired by different things and different media. So...I'm not the type of person that would just intake one thing. I like intaking a lot of different things, and different sources, and playing with them.
EW (43:40):
Well, that fusion of things often brings out new things. So that's a really cool process.
JM (43:45):
Oh, yeah. It's definitely a fun time.
EW (43:48):
That brings me to a question from Hayden. "Where do you get inspiration and ideas for your mechanical designs?"
JM (43:55):
My mechanical designs? That's actually kind of hard when I think about it loud. I literally, most of the time, I would just have an idea of something that I want. I would want this robot to be like this, or I want this robot to have this, and then I just kind of go from there.
JM (44:13):
I usually do a process of just sketching out random shapes and then finding one that I actually enjoy design-wise. And then I take it from there. And then of course I choose an aesthetic, and then I try to choose a color template. And then I go from there.
CW (44:29):
Let me ask that question in a slightly different way. Where do you go when you get stuck?
CW (44:34):
Where do I go when I get stuck?
EW (44:36):
Sounds like to the gym.
JM (44:38):
Yeah. To a gym. I mean, I don't really get stuck a lot of times.
CW (44:45):
Okay.
JM (44:45):
When I do get stuck, I reach out.
CW (44:46):
Yeah.
JM (44:46):
Like I do have people, confidants, Shawn being one of them. I know you're probably listening to this, Shawn. And I would come to them like, "Hey, I have this idea. And...I just need someone to bounce ideas off of really quickly." So I would bounce ideas off of my friends or colleagues, whatever.
JM (45:03):
And...either me expanding it helps get past that idea break, or they'll offer me some information, like, "Hey, you should look at this, because this sounds like what you're trying to do," that type of situation, or I'll just post it on Twitter and be like, "Hey, I'm confused about this. Twitter brain, help."
EW (45:20):
Yes. That does work sometimes. It's miraculous.
JM (45:24):
Yeah, right? It's amazing.
EW (45:26):
I have another question from Hayden. "How do you effectively keep track of different ideas you have and remember to come back to the good ones you've had in the past?"
JM (45:36):
I have a maker's notebook. I'm on maker's notebook volume four, as I'm calling them now. Because I fill them all up. I have a certain page, usually the first page on every notebook, is my idea page. So every time I have an idea, I would just go to the front page and write it down.
JM (45:52):
And then eventually if I have a situation where like, "Hey, I should be working on a new project," I can turn back to the first page and say, "Oh, these are the projects I have in this notebook. This project will probably be good for this." I just constantly write down all my ideas when it comes to project ideas.
EW (46:07):
Most of my maker notebooks, or just notebooks since I use them for clients and everything, have a first page that is the table of contents. And...it's so important the pages be numbered, and I like your idea of, "Yes, that's what you put there."
JM (46:26):
I'm really bad at table of contents. I have tabs. Some of my pages are very tabbed, because depending on what is important or what I feel is important I tab on there. Because sometimes I just doodle some of my robot sketches. My current robot Jor'Von was originally a doodle that I just did while I was waiting for a print to finish.
EW (46:46):
Oh yeah. My table of contents is only the important stuff. In a book of 200 graph paper pages, there might be four things listed in my table of contents, because they were important.
JM (46:57):
Yeah.
EW (46:58):
...It's my secondary brain. And sometimes like you said, talking to someone helps solve some problems, and it's what I talk to.
JM (47:10):
It definitely helps. I recommend it constantly.
CW (47:13):
Are you ever tempted to switch to doing that on computers? I know the answer is probably no, but there's lots of sketch programs, and organize your thoughts programs, and stuff.
JM (47:24):
Yeah, I've seen some of them. Yeah, no. I have. My problem is I was never good at digital arts. I had a digital art class, and I barely passed. There's something about traditional work. And I think it's because it's using more senses for me. It's not just a digital thing.
JM (47:41):
But when you're actually sketching it out on the paper, you feel the paper. You can hear the pencil strokes, all of those senses I think connect in my head better compared to doing it digitally. And I feel like digitally takes a bit longer in my opinion, just because I have to set everything up, and then sit here, and do it.
JM (48:00):
I can go to a coffee shop, because I have my favorite coffee shop. It's actually down the street from me, and I can take my notebook with me, and just have a sip of coffee, and then have my notebook, and just sketch out ideas.
EW (48:10):
I recently sketched something. But I didn't have a mechanical pencil near me. And I had my colored pencils in a box near me, and I opened them up and realized I have missed the smell of freshly sharpened pencils.
EW (48:27):
I mean, I love my mechanical pencils. But I'm starting to wonder if I need to say goodbye to them, because that smell just made me so happy.
JM (48:37):
It really depends on the style you are. Honestly, recently I've been using crayons. So it looks like a little smart kid got ahold of my notebook and started writing formulas and ideas down in there.
EW (48:52):
Color's important.
JM (48:53):
Yeah. But in my defense, crayons, I'm not sure what it is. Maybe it's the kid in me that just missed crayons, but crayons just recently just have been more fun to play with.
EW (49:01):
That's a smell that brings you to different places too.
JM (49:06):
Back to Sesame Street. No.
EW (49:10):
Svec asked, "What percentage of ideas you have end up being good, or bad, or useful, or not useful?
JM (49:19):
Percentage-wise I would have to say zero. I know that sounds weird. But I don't really think that my ideas are ever bad. I just think they're useful. And an idea now could be for something like, eventually I want to design my own drone, because I've seen the drones that we have now. And to me, they look boring.
JM (49:42):
They all just look like they have the four rotors and then a simple base. And that just looks like an easy, boring design. So eventually I do want to design my own very artsy looking drone.
JM (49:54):
But that's not really a bad idea or anything like that. It's just not important right now. So I don't really think I have any bad ideas. I just have ideas that are important now and ideas that are important later.
EW (50:07):
That's a good philosophy. Helen asked about your take on how tech might get integrated into mainstream fashion. There's the Hermes robotic sneakers on the shelves, which I haven't seen. So I need to go look those up.
EW (50:23):
And you do a lot of wearables and have a distinctive sense of style. So what do you think about tech and mainstream fashion?
JM (50:32):
I think it's eventually going to become really big. That's just not me trying to sound like I'm trying to sell anyone anything. Because I know when I say that, it sounds like I'm being a salesman of some sort, but no. I like the concept of tech being incorporated into fashion, just because I feel like it would be a lot cooler looking.
JM (50:51):
If everyone had a companion bot that can show off their personality and can take care of the minuscule tasks that we do day to day, like our cell phone does, but a little bit more interactive and better, would be way more fun to see.
JM (51:05):
There's stuff like, Zendaya had a transforming wearable dress not too long ago that she took to the red carpet for that fashion show, and things like that. So I think it's going to become a big thing in the future.
JM (51:19):
At least I hope it becomes a big thing in the future, because I'm going to be really upset if I time travel to the future and everything still looks the same. I'm -
CW (51:26):
T-shirts and jeans forever.
JM (51:28):
Yeah. I would be like, "Really,? You guys went this direction?"
CW (51:33):
Do you think it will be subtle, or do you think it will be...a sudden fashion shift kind of thing?
JM (51:42):
I think it will be subtle and slow. Something I've learned just from being alive this long, humanity, unless it's something that's going to change the world and people are born with it, like the cell phone, the best way to describe it when it comes to that is the cell phone, because that changed the world. It's going to be slow.
JM (52:02):
It may be something as slow as one famous person wearing it, and it becoming a trend for a while, and then someone taking that trend a step further. So I don't really expect to see it too big in my time.
JM (52:14):
But hopefully in the future, people are having integrated circuits into their jeans, and their jeans are both charging their phone while they're walking or counting their steps for them without having to wear the wrist thing.
EW (52:28):
I remember when there didn't used to be a wrist thing and when it just went in your pocket. That was better.
CW (52:34):
Yeah. That was a step backwards. I can say that now, because I don't work for them anymore.
JM (52:39):
I mean, it's weird...That's why I like to make for fun. That's my biggest thing. This is all fun for me, and that's why I try to make sure everything is open source. Because you can learn from it.
JM (52:50):
But I've noticed a lot of people, especially in America, in the capitalist state, because I get a lot of messages and things like this on Instagram, and on Twitter, and stuff, where people will be like, "Hey, I have this idea for a product." And making for a product is a lot harder -
CW (53:07):
Oh, yeah.
JM (53:07):
- than making for fun, because there's so much more pressure that's put on you. And then, what if your product is not ready? What if it's too futuristic for the current day world?
CW (53:19):
Making one of something is a lot easier or different than making a million of something. It's an entirely different process.
JM (53:26):
Yeah. So it's such a process, and then it's also such a stressor.
CW (53:31):
Yeah.
JM (53:32):
The company I used to work for was selling access controllers, like doors and stuff like that, and locks. And they did really great. They upgraded, they integrated video cam and that type of thing. But I was suggesting, maybe an anti-theft mechanism or something, "Person not recognized. Activating Nerf gun," or something like that.
JM (53:51):
Of course they just laughed at me and thought I was kidding, but that would be interesting and useful, I'm just saying.
EW (53:59):
At the beginning of the show, during lightning round, I asked if you had any role models, and you said yes. And then we went on. I want to go back to that.
CW (54:07):
He did say Adam Savage.
EW (54:08):
Oh.
JM (54:10):
Yes. Adam Savage, definitely big role model, follow Tested, love his work. Love watching him just make stuff for fun. And I've learned a lot just from watching his videos. I have read his book, of course, because I'm that nerd, but yeah.
JM (54:26):
That's my biggest human alive person role model, because I have a ton of fictional role models, but that's a whole different thing.
CW (54:37):
Is there anything you're looking forward to in, not, I don't want to say tech, because that sounds dumb, but is there anything you're looking forward to that's kind of new and upcoming that you want to kind of learn about and integrate into your work?
JM (54:50):
I've noticed people are creating more machine-learning microcontrollers.
CW (54:55):
Yes.
JM (54:55):
I've noticed a few more of those coming out recently and that really has me excited. Because I dream, even though I probably won't be a part of that, but I dream of AI personalities being a lot easier and simpler to get a hold of in the future.
JM (55:09):
So I guess a good example I can describe for this, which may be long-winded, but hear me out, have you seen a movie called Something's Wrong with Ron?
CW (55:19):
No, I know what you're talking about, but we have not seen that yet.
JM (55:22):
Yeah, it's one of the few movies I really enjoy, because it shows robots in the good light. And it actually shows how programming would actually work in a robot. So, so far I've only seen Ron Goes Wrong that does it correct, in my opinion, and Baymax from Big Hero 6.
JM (55:38):
Because we have a whole infatuation of making robots act human...If you can replace the robot character with a human character and pretty much everything still happens the same way, I feel like there's a problem.
CW (55:52):
That's an interesting philosophy. Yeah. I like that.
JM (55:55):
We should not be trying to make robots act like humans and stuff like that. So that's why I like Baymax. Baymax is a good example. He's a healthcare companion. He's there to take care of Hiro's health.
JM (56:05):
And there's a midpoint in the movie after they go flying where he asks Hiro, "Your brain waves are better right now. I can deactivate if you want me to." He's still following his programming.
CW (56:17):
Yeah.
JM (56:17):
And then they show what happens when he doesn't have that programming, when Hiro takes out his healthcare chip and he turns him into a battle bot.
CW (56:26):
Yeah. Yeah.
JM (56:27):
There's no, "Oh, my God. This isn't you." It's like, "No, this robot's here to destroy now."
EW (56:32):
I think that's a dark picture of the future.
CW (56:36):
No, I get what he's saying is, he's saying they're not human. They can change in different ways. And why are we trying to impose -
JM (56:44):
Yeah, why are you trying to program a human?
CW (56:45):
Exactly.
JM (56:45):
You guys create those already.
EW (56:48):
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. You were trying to program a human, -
CW (56:53):
Who, me?
EW (56:53):
- yourself.
JM (56:54):
...I'm trying to figure out if I could program my consciousness into a robot.
EW (56:59):
So not a random human, but yourself.
JM (57:04):
I want it to get to a point where I can put him on an answering machine, and you would think you're talking to me. But where I was going with this with Ron, in Something Wrong with Ron, the machine-learning algorithm in that movie is that the robots are there to become your friend.
JM (57:20):
And what's wrong with Ron is that his programming is messed up. So the kid has to teach him how to be his friend.
CW (57:29):
Oh, okay.
JM (57:29):
And it's so interesting to see, because Ron is such a random robot. One second, he'll be giving you a high five. And then he'll just fall apart for kicks and giggles. And...I hope in the future, more robots are like how Ron is, where it's completely random, but it's learning from you. In the movie he learns from the human kid.
JM (57:49):
He figures out that he doesn't like to be in the dark. So he intentionally lights up and glows a little bit more at night. That way the kid's not scared at night. He learns his likes and dislikes.
JM (58:00):
I hope for a future where we can have that type of programming, easier, accessible, where we don't have to do all of this machine learning, and all this programming, and heavy lifting, where we can just go online and just download personality program one. And then it learns from there without it going hostile.
EW (58:20):
That's a good caveat. Yes.
JM (58:22):
Well, in Ron, he never goes hostile. They get mad. They have a fight with each other, but the robot doesn't go hostile. It just is like, "I'm broken, because my maker doesn't like me."
EW (58:33):
Jay, it's been really wonderful to talk to you. And I suspect we could talk about robots for a good deal longer, but it's Saturday. We should go out and play. Do you have any thoughts you'd like to leave us with?
JM (58:45):
The only thought I would have to leave you with is, remember why you got into making things, what you enjoy about it. And just remember to keep moving forward.
EW (58:59):
Our guest has been Jorvon Moss, also known as Odd Jayy, self-taught Maker, and Tinkerer, and Technical Media Creator for Digi-Key. You can find him on Twitter and on that make.io.
CW (59:15):
Thanks, Jay. It was fun to talk to you.
JM (59:17):
No problem.
EW (59:19):
Thank you to Christopher for producing and co-hosting. Thank you to our Patreon listener Slack group for questions. And of course, thank you for listening. You can always contact us at show@embedded.fm, or hit the contact link on embedded.fm.
EW (59:34):
And now a quote to leave you with, I think from Toni Morrison. Yeah, this is a good one. "Your life is already artful - waiting, just waiting, for you to make it art."