383: The Monkey’s Not Gonna Work
Transcript from 383: The Monkey’s Not Gonna Work with Mario Marchese, Elecia White, and Christopher White.
EW (00:07):
Welcome to Embedded. I am Elecia White, alongside Christopher White. I don't think we have enough magic in our lives right now so I have invited Mario Marchese, also known as Mario the Maker Magician, to hang out with us.
CW (00:22):
Hey Mario. Thanks for joining us.
MM (00:24):
Thank you so much for having me. This is awesome.
EW (00:27):
Could you tell us about yourself?
MM (00:29):
Yeah, so, I'm from New York. We live north of the city in a wonderful town called Nyack along the Hudson river. My name's Mario Marchese, and I travel with my family.
MM (00:40):
My wife Katie and I have two children, Gigi and Bear, and we have a theater show that we tour. The whole show is about mixing robotics with traditional magic and sleight of hand. It's been a fun journey inspiring kids to be makers.
EW (01:01):
Alright. Of course we have questions about the making and the magic.
CW (01:05):
And the robots.
EW (01:06):
And the robots of course. And the robots that do magic. But first we want to do lightning round, where we ask you short questions, and we want short answers. And if we're behaving ourselves, we won't ask you "How," and "Why," and "Are you sure that it works that way, and it's not real magic?"
CW (01:22):
Which Muppet would you be if you could be a Muppet?
MM (01:26):
Animal. I mean, there's not a doubt in my mind. I don't even have to think. I think most of my days, especially with performing, I feel like Animal. I think that's the best way to put my show. I think my job as a performer is to get kids to feel like Animal, just free, and just excited, and inspired.
EW (01:51):
How do you think the robots will treat you when they finally take over the world?
MM (01:57):
It's funny. It's one of the most common things I get with the robots that I build and the magic mixing. I think you bring out actually a great question. I think part of my mission is, robotics are not going away, and it's affecting every form of life that we have.
MM (02:18):
And the sooner that we can make robotics playful, the sooner that we can connect to robotics as companions, I think the better the world is going to be.
MM (02:28):
And I think that's part of my overall mission, is introducing robotics in a fun way to create comedy, to create magic for entertainment, and understanding that we can program things to make people laugh. I mean, that's a powerful thing. We're living in a powerful time that we can do that from home.
CW (02:49):
Have you ever licked a nine-volt battery?
MM (02:53):
[Laughter] You know, Piff the Magic Dragon has threatened to lick nine-volt batteries when we do videos together. No, I have not. No, I have not.
EW (03:01):
You haven't?
CW (03:02):
That's actually one of our stock questions. You might be surprised.
EW (03:09):
Do you have a favorite fictional robot?
MM (03:12):
Oh, Johnny 5, the movie, -
EW (03:15):
Yeah.
MM (03:15):
- was it Short Circuit? I think it was, yeah...
EW (03:17):
Yeah.
MM (03:17):
I mean, the emotion that robot created in all of us when you watch that film is part of the core of why I love making robotics too. I don't know, there's something about that whole story and that robot that really gets me excited.
CW (03:32):
What card am I thinking of?
MM (03:35):
Queen of hearts.
CW (03:35):
Damn.
EW (03:39):
Do you have a tip everyone should know?
MM (03:43):
...So in what way? A tip in what? A life tip? A robotics tip?
CW (03:47):
Whatever you like.
MM (03:49):
Whatever I like. I think it's important to remember that black is ground and red is positive.
EW (03:57):
Usually. Okay. What came first? Not lightning round anymore. What came first, making or magic?
MM (04:07):
Making. Definitely making. I started making when I was four or five. My mom...I just remember her washing all these dishes and then cleaning the table out. And then she would put an object at the center of the dinner table, and we would sit quietly for an hour just trying to draw what the object was.
MM (04:26):
I think that's how the journey started, just using your hands, and just creating something outside of yourself.
EW (04:33):
How did the magic come into it?
MM (04:36):
The magic came in almost by accident. I mean, I have a funny story. I talk about it a lot, but I was really into street performing after high school, and I bumped into a magic shop by accident. I walked into a physical brick and mortar magic shop.
CW (04:51):
Yeah.
MM (04:51):
My favorite scene from my favorite movie was playing on a beat up VHS player at the back wall. That moment was really freaky. I remember realizing as I was walking in that it was an important thing that was happening. So it started like that. It was just kind of weird. It was just a crazy, weird thing.
CW (05:10):
I remember my parents, I always begged them, there was a magic shop on the Main Street in Disneyland. Every time we went to Disneyland, I just wanted to spend the whole time in the magic shop.
MM (05:18):
Oh, I love it.
CW (05:19):
I never got good at anything, because I was too lazy, but there was just something about all that stuff, and kind of the whole environment there with all these little mysterious things. It was so great.
MM (05:31):
No, I mean, Chris, you're nailing it. I mean, I think that's something that is in all of us. I think that's part of the magician's job for grown-ups is making you feel like that child, because we're literally playing with toys again.
CW (05:47):
Yeah, yeah.
MM (05:48):
One of my favorite things was early on when I got into magic, I was very fortunate to be part of a magic club that someone invited me, and everybody was in their late 70s and 80s. I was so young in that group, and it was crazy.
MM (06:01):
But the beautiful thing was, I know this is going to sound morbid and weird, but I'm going to say it anyway, is I was 23 and I'm watching these people that are in their 80s playing with sponge rabbits and clown noses. And it was the first time I left where I was like, "Wow, it's okay to grow old."
MM (06:19):
We're all kids. It was this huge realization to me. And I was like, "I want to be in this room. I want to be in this group." That's how it kind of started.
MM (06:30):
That club helped me a lot too, because they took all the noise away. They taught me the classics of magic rather than me just spending money randomly, trying to find a trick that pleases in the moment. They taught me these core principles of magic, and that kind of helped shape my show.
EW (06:48):
When Ben first posted a link to one of your videos on our Patreon Slack, it was the "ROBOT performs a coin MAGIC trick?!"
MM (07:00):
Okay.
EW (07:01):
Could you describe that for folks who haven't seen?
MM (07:05):
Yeah. So I built this cardboard robot called Automabot, and one of my goals with robotics is I want to have a robot that does the whole trick, without me touching it, there's no human, that's it.
MM (07:18):
And it's funny you mentioned that, because talk about core principles of magic, that robot performs a classic of coin magic, which is called the Coin Matrix. And basically what happens is it's a mat with just four quarters that are just in a square on each corner. And one by one, the quarters travel in a pile at one side.
MM (07:38):
So what's cool is that this robot, my robot Automabot, performs that trick. And it's very fast paced, and it's super visual. And it was a absolute pain to create. I don't think I'll ever do it again.
MM (07:53):
But the beauty was that one take when I got it on my phone, and it all synchronized and worked. Because...there's multiple circuits that are all in sync for that illusion to happen.
CW (08:05):
Sure.
EW (08:06):
I wish I had taken a video of Chris watching it, because he didn't really know what I was showing him, and then he just got ever more surprised. It was hilarious.
CW (08:16):
There's something about the robot doing it that's just, I don't know, it's delightful in a weird way.
EW (08:22):
And it kept looking down like it wasn't sure -
CW (08:24):
Yes.
EW (08:24):
- what it was doing.
CW (08:25):
Yes.
MM (08:26):
Yes. That makes me so happy because that's part of the emotion, the straw eyebrow, getting upset and then he looks up in surprise when it works...
MM (08:34):
The pandemic is a terrible thing, but one of the beautiful things that's happened was learning to express everything that I've learned with robotics over the past 12 years into someone's phone for 30 seconds.
MM (08:47):
The emotion is a big part of my stage show. I have robots that interact with me, but to have it in a video where it does the whole trick was really fun.
MM (08:57):
So that makes me happy, Chris, because you're a magician at heart dude, without a doubt. I know it, because of that story that you said about Disney World or Disneyland or whatever, definitely.
EW (09:07):
And I do want to make sure the robot does the trick. There's no video trickery here.
MM (09:14):
No, there is no video trickery at all. That take took me over 100 takes of videoing it over and over again. I'm not lying...It's all sleight of hand.
MM (09:25):
And you know what's funny? On Reddit that video took off and the argument was video editing, but thank goodness, random magicians being like, "No, dude, this is called the Coin Matrix. It's a classic of magic. There's no video editing."
MM (09:38):
It was just funny, because that's a great example of what my goal is, is to bring these two worlds together, this programming, engineering world with...this magic world together. And so that's been a fun thing with Automabot, was watching these two different worlds interact together through the comments.
CW (09:57):
There's a lot of magic that's apparatus-based, like a trick deck or -
MM (10:03):
[Affirmative].
CW (10:03):
- big contraptions...Everyone's seen the big David Copperfield stuff, or some of the stuff on Penn and Teller, where there's just big chambers and things.
CW (10:12):
That has kind of technology subsided [subsumed] inside it, where you're not supposed to really see that technology is kind of involved. What you seem to be doing is bringing technology to the forefront a little bit.
MM (10:24):
One hundred percent. Yeah.
CW (10:24):
It seems like a different thing a little bit.
MM (10:27):
Yeah. Yeah, I am. And I get in trouble for it. And I don't care. I think a big part of life for me is the whole open source nature of everything, of all of humanity. I'm not revealing big stuff that's going to crutch other magicians. I'm revealing just good stuff.
MM (10:48):
Like he magicians that I met when I was at that magic club. The idea is that the library is not the same anymore. It's not this physical library anymore. Kids are learning on YouTube. They're learning virtually. There's all these new ways with technology that people are learning.
MM (11:02):
And so yeah, I'm definitely revealing stuff. My robotics are exposed. But let me tell you something, Elecia and Chris, that I will confess, is those cardboard hands on that robot you can't cut. I have sneaky stuff built into those hands.
CW (11:16):
Sure.
MM (11:16):
But it looks innocent, because it's cardboard. So there's a lot of wiggle room for me to create new sleights, new ways to make things vanish and reappear, that I wouldn't have with my own physical hands. So in some way, it's just fun exploring the innocence of the objects.
MM (11:34):
Because when you see the robot, you're judging it already, like, "What is this crappy looking cardboard robot? Why am I watching this?" But then there's that strong hitting magic that happens. So lowering the audience's expectation is a very powerful thing that I've learned over the years.
MM (11:53):
Just having that low expectation when you see an object, but then packing it with modern technology and cool stuff for it to do, it's been a real fun journey for me. And I've been getting some good reward from that.
EW (12:06):
Making the robot unapologetically cardboard also lowers the perceived barrier to entry. It makes it seem like other people could do it. Was that part of your intention?
MM (12:18):
Well, yeah. Well now we're getting into the philosophy of why I've even chose children's magic and film entertainment over other entertainment, is for me, is accessibility. I have a routine in my show with a bottle cap award ribbon. So think about the oxymoron of that.
MM (12:33):
It's a bottle cap, that's the award, because I believe with all my heart that all great art comes from the bottom up. That's how it is. It always comes that way to me. And I think of Andy Warhol with the humble tomato can. I think of all kinds of stuff.
MM (12:49):
I think of John-Michel Basquiat and his attitude of painting, dressing in big fancy suits, but barefoot and just tossing paid onto the canvas. I love that idea of what is valued, and what is not valued, and playing with that in the sense that all of my objects. I want kids to go home and say that they can make it themselves.
MM (13:10):
And so therefore all of my objects are very recognizable. I'll give you an example. When I did a show in Chicago a year and a half ago, a kid came up at the merch table and yelled at his mom, saying, "Mom, I can't wait. Because when I go home, I'm going through the trash and building a magic show!"
EW (13:27):
Yes. Yes.
MM (13:29):
And that was the greatest compliment to me because...that's how I want kids to go home after they see my show.
EW (13:38):
There's a wonder associated with magic, of course. But there's also this wonder of building something. Are you trying to drive home both, or does one cause the other?
MM (13:53):
No, I think as a performer, we don't waste the audience's time. It's a sacred moment of time that we have when they're seated. And so you have to have that wonder. That wonder has got to knock them out of the park.
MM (14:08):
And then you can inspire them so that they can be those makers with cardboard and tape, and then they'll believe in it more. Because it's a mix. I feel sometimes like an infomercial salesman, where my whole show is spent proving that I can do magic so I can spend the last five minutes speaking my heart and my philosophy on life.
MM (14:30):
And like I said, it's all a reflection of my own childhood, of the things that I wish I had. I wish I had Maker Faires to go to when I was a kid. I wish I had a robotics class, people in my life that geared the arts to me. That didn't happen until my late teens, that I got introduced to some powerful teachers that inspired me.
MM (14:50):
So part of my goal is really just being that wind that comes through a small town and having that one eight or nine-year-old see just something that sparks their imagination to do that one search on Google to get that Arduino, or get that little Scratch program opened up so that they can create what they imagine.
MM (15:07):
I think that's the big goal is, "How can we have the freedom to create what we imagine and know how to use the tools that can get us there?"
EW (15:16):
When you were on Sesame Street, you did a trick where you actually showed how to do the trick, and doesn't that get you kicked out of Magic Castle for revealing secrets? You mentioned that you get in trouble for this. Really? Really?
MM (15:36):
I could tell you stories about the Magic Castle. I love the Magic Castle. That's one of the most prestigious places in the world. Yeah, I got in trouble recently... Make Magazine did a feature of a chapter in my book, "The Maker Magician's Handbook." And I revealed how to force a card on an audience member.
MM (15:57):
And the way that I did that, the force that I chose, according to magicians was like, "Wait a second here. You're giving them the good stuff. This is something that we need to keep so that we can still create these great stories with our magic."
MM (16:10):
And for me, I'm like, "No, there's so many ways to do this routine. And I'm thinking of an eight, nine-year-old hand and how they handle a deck of cards. And what's the easiest way, and the most fulfilling way that they can perform this trick?"
MM (16:26):
And I based it on that, and I published it. And yeah, I got some slack, but at the end of the day, like I said, my goal is I want to inspire the next generation. I don't care what it takes. And I'm picking it, not in some loose way where I'm not thinking.
MM (16:42):
I'm thinking completely with every method I reveal on purpose, because I'm just thinking of myself when I first got into magic. And the way that I became a magician was because of a few people in my life that revealed a few things.
EW (16:57):
Your book. Tell us about your book.
MM (17:00):
So I have "The Maker Magician's Handbook." It's printed through Make, Make.co, Through Make Magazine. It's my first book ever. And what it is, is building a magic show at home. And it's all using everyday objects. The guts of this book is my best lesson plans that I taught, after school programs with magic.
MM (17:20):
I did it for five years, five days a week, at different schools. So in here, every chapter is the most rewarding routine that I was able to teach through elementary age and junior high. And we formed it into...this book so that you can build a whole show from beginning to end.
MM (17:38):
There's a lot of philosophy in it, too, about the importance of aesthetics, and the importance of having a backdrop, and the importance of adding music to your show, and what kind of music fits for what routine.
MM (17:49):
So I'm really excited about it. And it's called, "The Maker Magician's Handbook," and you can find it at mariothemagician.com. Sorry for the shameless plug, but yes.
EW (18:00):
We invited it. Back to Sesame Street.
MM (18:05):
Yeah.
EW (18:05):
What was it like being on Sesame Street?
MM (18:09):
It was the greatest thing for my career. I mean, it was like a dream. I got to perform with Joey Mazzarino and Peter Linz, these masters. Masters. You think of a puppet, you think of a child's toy.
CW (18:25):
Yeah.
MM (18:25):
But then when you see Peter Linz put a puppet in his hand, you can't take your eyes off the eyes of that puppet, because he's mastered how to communicate with this inanimate object, this object that has no life, supposedly. So being up close with artists like that was like a dream for me.
MM (18:42):
It was a powerful moment for me, because you work so hard at what you do. And then one day they call you, and you're on Sesame Street, and you do an episode. And it was just kind of my little college degree, saying I'm on the right path. And I'm still in touch with some of the puppeteers from that day, a few of them.
EW (19:03):
I can imagine. That would just be one of those things that you'd put in a box, mentally on the shelf, and be able to look at it any time things are going wrong.
MM (19:12):
Oh, yeah.
CW (19:12):
I'm done. I did it.
MM (19:15):
Elecia, I mean, you have to see when they're not using the puppets. There's a table and the way they put them away is like you're at the MoMA museum. They're all displayed. Even the arms are positioned with custom stands...It was breathtaking and awesome.
MM (19:31):
And I think that's the dream for all of us when we are engulfed in an art form, right? Is to be among the people that do it best in the world and learn from them. So it was a fun little season, and I made some great connections with some people over the years from it.
EW (19:47):
How did you learn how to do the electronics, and the mechatronics, the software, the robotics, all these things that some of us have gone to school for a long, long time for?
MM (19:58):
Yeah. I think when I first got into magic, one of the most exciting things for me was Robert-Houdin, he's a French magician that we call kind of the forefather of modern day magic. He was a watchmaker, and he built automatons. And basically what they are were mechanical objects that perform magic by themselves.
MM (20:18):
So he would walk away from the object. And while he's speaking, this object would come to life, a little pastry restaurant where someone named any pastry, and then you'd watch this miniature dollhouse light up with a baker moving around.
MM (20:33):
And then a door opens, and then boom, the pastry that was selected is the pastry that appears, and stuff like that. So anyway, that was always something early on that really inspired me, was how to build mechanical things. And long story short, Make Magazine 2005, 2006, I pick up a magazine and I learned about the Arduino board.
MM (20:52):
And the Arduino is just this blue, credit card-sized board, where you can program motors to move by typing in words and numbers. That's insane. That's insane!
MM (21:02):
I mean, if you think about an automaton, and all the clockwork gears that go into it, and all the windings, and all the confusion, here you can learn a language that you type, and you plug in a motor, and the motor will obey the word language that you're typing. I mean, that was a huge explosion to me.
MM (21:19):
I mean, I suffered two years. This is way early on YouTube. There was no tutorials. I just suffered through. I remember dreaming of code at night, nightmare dreams of trying to understand how to do this stuff.
MM (21:32):
But after two years of hard work, I started to find freedom in it. And it's been real fun, adapting my whole show where almost every element of my theater show has robotics in it. So it's been real fun climbing that mountain.
EW (21:45):
As somebody who does robotics and occasionally does demos, they never go well. How do you deal with it?
CW (21:54):
Teach us how to be better demo people.
EW (21:56):
Teach us how to make our robots -
MM (21:57):
I love it.
EW (21:57):
- perform in front of people.
MM (22:00):
No,...you bring up such a great question, and I talk about this in my lecture with magicians. You have to utilize the weaknesses of what we have and make it a strength, in the sense that for me, my weakness is when my robotics fail.
MM (22:16):
You're totally right. They fall apart. Katie, my wife will tell you, I spend half of my time fixing the robotics after my shows than I do actually performing.
MM (22:26):
But that's part of the trade-off, that's part of having things that look like they're going to fall apart. I guess that's part of all that. But I think what's happened over the years organically is that most of my robots fall apart on purpose on stage.
EW (22:42):
It's a feature, not a bug.
MM (22:45):
No, it is. Now it's totally this complete feature. If you've seen my show, you'll see that 70 to 80% of the robots that are on it do something that break, so I've learned to adapt it...in a way that's entertaining.
EW (23:01):
Do you have any stories about dealing with the technological failure before you learned to make it part of your show?
MM (23:07):
Oh, 100%. I mean, we could talk for hours about that. I mean, I was at KIDabra. KIDabra is a convention for family entertainers, so people that entertain kids and families. It's a convention that happens once a year where they showcase certain lecturers and performers. And I was chosen to perform.
MM (23:25):
It was a big deal for me. It was my first time lecturing for magicians and performers. And I have a robot monkey named Marcel in my show. He's all 3D-printed, robotic. We do three minutes of theater. And here I am, it's the gala night.
MM (23:38):
The lights are all on me. The lights are dim. There's 70 magicians all sitting there with their arms crossed, like, "Who is this guy," right? And I go to plug in this board, the Arduino board, and as I'm plugging it in my ground wire snaps.
MM (23:55):
And that means the monkey's not going to work, and I knew it. And the sweat just started pouring on my forehead as I'm looking at this robot with the music playing, and I'm not in rhythm anymore. And so what do I do? I put the robot down, I grabbed my rings that are in my bag, and I go to Whit Hayden's four ring routine.
MM (24:16):
That's a core principle of magic, a classical magic. Every magician knows that routine, but that's what happens. You have to have a plan B.
CW (24:23):
Yeah.
MM (24:23):
So I never have just robots. I always have my pockets full just in case. And yes, it wasn't the top notch performance that it was supposed to be. But yes, I didn't fail. I learned. And now what did I do? I hot glued both ends of that freaking ground wire so it will never snap again.
EW (24:45):
Yes.
CW (24:49):
I mean, that's the truth of all performing is something's going to go wrong. I mean, the number of times I went to gigs and forgot something important for my drum set -
MM (24:57):
Right.
CW (24:57):
- was like -
EW (24:58):
There was always one stand that just had one piece that wasn't there.
CW (25:01):
I did a whole gig on a wooden bench. My butt hurt so bad after two hours.
MM (25:05):
Oh, no. That's crazy. Yeah, exactly dude. It doesn't matter. Drummer, magician.
CW (25:12):
You said something interesting that I want to go back to a little bit. It was about typing words and having the motors move and do stuff. I had a physics professor, and I just remember one thing he said. It was just in the middle of a lecture.
CW (25:28):
He just looked at the board, and there was a bunch of equations up there. And he said, "We're all sorcerers. Look what we do. We put these weird incantations on the blackboard, and it describes and makes things happen in the world."
CW (25:39):
And I think there's a kind of actual, real magic about typing magical incantations and having motors move. I think -
MM (25:46):
Yeah.
CW (25:46):
I don't know. It just resonated with me.
MM (25:48):
No, it's well said, man. And it's so true. We get so comfortable, and we forget the magic of things so much. I mean, I think that's why religion and having faith in something bigger than yourself is so important. It's a reminder constantly that there's magic everywhere.
MM (26:07):
And once we start forgetting that, our imagination stops. I try my best to condition my mind like that, constantly reminding myself the beauty of just, like you said, that teacher, man, that teacher was living in the moment, right? That's why it hit you so hard.
MM (26:25):
He's literally living in the moment. He's taking a step back from his class, his lesson, and just having a moment of understanding the beauty of life, right here, right now. It really feels like that with programming. It's just been fun, just experimenting during the pandemic.
MM (26:42):
This Automabot, I would've never built that if the world was just normal. I would still still be in the hamster wheel of doing five shows a week and not having time to do that. But yeah, it's been a fun season of me reminding myself of how beautiful that is.
EW (26:57):
One of the things you've been doing during the pandemic is videos, including those with Piff the Magic Dragon. Tell us about Piff.
MM (27:10):
Aw, man, Piff, he's, man. Well, we all have geniuses. We all have some special gift. And I think the first thing I realized with Piff, just filming, because some of those videos we filmed for an hour, is Piff is just always on. He's always funny.
MM (27:32):
And he just knows. He has that wit where, talk about living in the moment like I was just saying. All the callbacks, you know with comedy, the whole callback theme. It's like that with magic too, where you just constantly call back something that just happened.
MM (27:47):
He's just so smart. He's definitely one of the smartest people I've ever met. He's funny as hell, and I feel really lucky that I've had a couple episodes where I got to work with him. He's a genius dude, and that's what it takes. And he talks about that.
MM (28:04):
We did a lecture together for magicians two weeks ago at Tannen's Magic Camp. And he opened up about that, because one of the kids asked him and said, "How did you learn to be so funny?" And Piff said it was a lot of work.
MM (28:16):
And he described it like you do a show, you make a mistake, someone heckles you, you go home, and you think about all the things you should've said, and then you write them down. And then a week goes by, or two weeks of shows, and then the same exact mistake happens again.
MM (28:31):
And now you have this written down that you memorized, and you say the joke, and you get the laugh. And he's like, "Just think of that times a million." And it's beautiful. And it's true. I'll tell you one last thing is, my favorite lecturer was Aldo Colombini.
MM (28:45):
He was an Italian-American magician. He passed away, unfortunately. But what I remember from his lecture was the moment he put his feet on stage, everyone was just crying laughing for an hour. He made every single person laugh the whole way through.
MM (29:02):
And then when he was done with his lecture, he went to his merch table, and I went to talk to him. And I was dying to talk to him, because he's Italian like me. His first language is Italian, just like me. All my family's in Italy on my dad's side. I can't wait to connect with him.
MM (29:14):
And it was like he couldn't connect, like normal situations, because he is so ingrained in this genius of performing in front of audiences so consistently, so much, that it's like you obsess your life in this one direction of connecting that almost in other ways you're having difficulties in connecting. I don't know if that makes sense.
CW (29:33):
It does. It does. It does.
MM (29:33):
But I feel that in myself, -
EW (29:35):
It totally does.
MM (29:35):
- my own performances, where you put your whole heart in such a certain direction of socializing and direction that you almost start forgetting the other ways. But anyway, I got offended in the moment, but as I walked away, I admired him more for giving up part of his life so that we could have these memories years later.
MM (29:56):
I think that's what it's about. And I think people like Aldo Colombini, people like Piff, people like these great magicians, like David Blaine, they've dedicated a very specific part of their life so that we can be inspired. I hate to be cheesy. I'm sorry. It's important...It's important.
EW (30:17):
With Piff, you do this series where you make things.
MM (30:23):
Yep.
EW (30:23):
And, well actually, could you describe it? There's no way I'm going to do it justice.
MM (30:28):
Yeah. Yeah. So it's called "Piff & Mario Make Things," and it's been so much fun. We both have very, very strong characters, different kinds of personalities, and it's been so fun exploring. So basically I'm trying to teach Piff how to make robots and craft projects.
MM (30:48):
And it's just a fun journey, talking to him, and the supplies we need, and all this stuff. And it was all organic. We just did it for fun as one video. And we got a lot of positive feedback. And from there we just continued making more.
MM (31:03):
We end up making each project so you can make them at home, but it's just watching Piff make these objects, is what makes it so good. The way he goes about with simple objects, like scissors, like a glue stick, stuff that we use -
EW (31:22):
The drill.
MM (31:22):
- every day that's so normal. Yeah, exactly. We had to cut a cup in half, but instead of getting a knife, Piff gets a drill, and he's slamming this drill where...he's almost cutting himself up. And yeah. So talk about committing to the bit. Piff is just gold with that.
EW (31:42):
He's been on Penn and Teller's Fool Us. That's how we were familiar with him. Do you think that show has made a big difference to the magic community?
MM (31:53):
This past decade, it's beautiful to see how much magic has been elevated from this lower art form to this thing that we value highly. And I think shows like AGT, Penn and Teller Fool Us, these stages where the world can watch you and your art have done nothing but good.
MM (32:14):
And I mean, it's amazing watching careers like Piff where he's on Fool Us, then on AGT and just kills all the way through. Trailblazing through to get his own theater show in Vegas.
MM (32:29):
I mean, that's a great example of what can happen with these roads that you take. And yeah, I think it's important. Shows like that definitely elevate our art form.
EW (32:43):
You said art a couple of times. And I think about magicians requiring dexterity, and comedy skills, and public speaking, and for people who design their own tricks, engineering, design, and building skills. Is that all part of art or is art an additional skill in that list?
MM (33:07):
Have you guys watched Ted Lasso at all or no?
CW (33:09):
Oh, God.
EW (33:09):
Oh, my God. I love that show.
MM (33:11):
So, you know, the character, that's like, "Soccer is life?"
CW (33:14):
Yes.
EW (33:14):
Danny Rojas!
MM (33:14):
It's like that for me. Art is life. Art is life. Art is life, because art is so big. It's so much bigger than everything, bigger than all of us. I think the core principle of art is connection. It's connection. When my son was six months old, I remember my wife gave me my son, and I'm holding him, and she's like, "You've got to put him to sleep."
MM (33:40):
And I was like, "There's no way." And I'm rocking him, and he's moving around like crazy. And I know he's tired, and he's upset, and he's cranky. And every time we made eye contact was the only time that my son started dozing off.
MM (33:52):
And then the second he shook his head and looked away, he was back to going crazy. Human connection, that's where all the release is. That's where the magic happens. And however we can get to connecting, that's art. And if it's from a joke and you master how to say a joke, that's art.
MM (34:09):
Because we all laugh, and we forget how crazy the world is. Or when we see something beautiful, right? Like a painting or a multimedia sculpture, or a robot, or a show or Broadway show.
MM (34:21):
You feel the reason why we're alive, you're breathing in. That's art. Art is life. So just like the Ted Lasso character, I agree. Soccer is life. He's basically saying art is life.
EW (34:33):
Given who you are, you're clearly sort of extroverted. I imagine the pandemic has been really hard both on your career and on your ability to connect with an audience. How are you handling it?
MM (34:49):
Yeah, I count every day. So yeah, it's been a long road. We got back in March, I think it was March 12th, from a three-month tour. And then we watched our calendar empty out in three days.
MM (35:06):
And all our living is based on the live performance. The way we raise our kids, we road school. Everything is the live show. So you can imagine how hard that was. And I think for a lot of performers, you realize where your happiness lies too, is in your work.
MM (35:23):
I think with anybody that has a trade or something that they enjoy, when that's taken from you, it's like you've got to reassess and rewire your brain.
MM (35:31):
But the beautiful thing was, after a week or so of everything bad happening, we went on live on Facebook, and I did a little punk rock dance party for kids with my guitar, which I've never done in my life. But from that moment, we got two residencies, one with Make Magazine and one with another national brand.
MM (35:49):
And we were able to go live once a week, and our paychecks started coming in. And then we developed a Zoom show for kids. And we've developed the Mario show. And so now I'm in the Zoom world, so deep, and we're back in that. And yeah, it was hard. It's hard.
MM (36:06):
I was extending my backdrop this morning on my lawn, because in two weeks I will be performing in person again after all these months. And I'm crying like a baby, because I'm so excited to just get back in the ring.
MM (36:24):
There's nothing like being in person somewhere. I mean, think about when you go to a Broadway show or when you saw a great performance live in person, there's a reason why that stuff exists. It's the most beautiful thing. So I can't wait to get back. And yes, it was definitely difficult.
EW (36:42):
Did you find yourself more drawn to the technology part to creating, designing new illusions?
MM (36:52):
Yeah. So this is another beautiful angle, is that there's a whole new way of doing theater. Zoom is amazing. I would've never thought that. You can hack the tech in so many ways to your advantage, where the screen becomes the theater stage. The camera is your curtain.
MM (37:12):
You can cover it with your hand and no one sees the stage anymore. And shrinking all my robotics to fit the Zoom screen, and 3D printing those designs so that now everything small plays big again. So now I have friends that are full-time performers like me. They don't want to go back to in-person.
MM (37:30):
They're so good at Zoom shows that they're hoping that this will transition through, where they can make their living and raise their kids just doing virtual shows.
EW (37:39):
And then you don't have to wear pants.
MM (37:44):
Yes. You don't have to clean up after you're done. I have all this, cards and robot crap. Yes. There's definitely benefits.
EW (37:53):
If somebody wanted to be Mario the Magician when they grow up, what advice would you have for them?
MM (38:03):
Like I say at the end of my show, "You've got to do what you love. You've got to use everything that you have, and you've got to have fun." And I think whatever those things are will define you. And I think that the beautiful thing is there's room for all of us on stage.
MM (38:21):
There's not just room for one person that does one thing. We all have a unique way of connecting. So honestly, for me, what has empowered me is learning 3D design, like tinkercad.com. It's free if you have an internet connection.
MM (38:35):
And get a cheap 3D printer, you can go on somewhere like Amazon and spend 200 bucks, or wherever. And they've dropped down in prices. 3D design, 3D print, and animate what you make. Get a microcontroller. Plug-in a servo motor. Learn how to make a servo motor move.
MM (38:49):
It'll change your life. It doesn't matter what business you're in. You could be a floral designer, it'll affect your life. Learn how to 3D print things and learn how to animate what you 3D print. That's definitely been one of the things that's changed my life.
CW (39:00):
So I actually want to ask you about that. What's your bag of, oh God.
EW (39:03):
Go ahead. Say bag of tricks. Come on. We're all waiting for it. And then ask him to pull a rabbit out of his hat.
CW (39:08):
What's in your tool chest? What are your go-to things? You mentioned Arduino, servo motors.
MM (39:15):
Yeah.
CW (39:15):
Is that the bulk of it? And 3D printing? Are you constantly adding new things? Do you go to Adafruit and look around for "Wow. What could I do with that?" Or is it kind of a core set of things, and you've got kind of your methods built around that core set of things?
MM (39:33):
Yeah. I mean, when we were on the road, which hopefully, our tour, if you look at our schedule, we're going to be back starting October. We'll be doing theaters again. So I talk about this in my lecture. I have a makerspace in a backpack. So I am at a hotel room. I can just move the desk. I have my 3D printer.
MM (39:53):
I have a small bag with a soldering iron, 22-gauge solid core wire. I have some solder. I have industrial hot glue. I have a bunch of boards. Every servo that's in my show, I have a double of. Every part in my robots that I have that are 3D-printed, I have a double of in Ziploc bags, all organized.
MM (40:14):
And, so yeah, I definitely have these core tools that I use. Wire cutters, wire strippers, that I go back to. And then the beautiful thing is, if I have to print big things, 3D printing is so popular now too. Mostly anywhere we are, there's always a university or a library -
CW (40:32):
Yeah.
MM (40:32):
- that has access to a 3D printer. And so that's been helpful too.
CW (40:36):
With the Arduino stuff, do you look at new sensors and wonder, "What could I do with a proximity sensor," or the, I don't know, not temperature sensor, but -
EW (40:51):
Inertial navigation unit.
CW (40:51):
- there's all these things, -
EW (40:51):
Accelerometer.
CW (40:51):
- and now my mind is spinning. I mean, you could make all kinds of very strange things. Or is it more about the engagement, less about the technology?
MM (41:02):
Yeah, so I think what I bring that's different is that I'm just thinking always performance when I look at all these engineering blogs and all these electronic blogs.
CW (41:13):
Yeah.
MM (41:13):
So I'll give you an example. I have a little lamp that's in my show, it's like a little Pixar lamp called Mr. Lamp. And the way that I built it was from a university thesis or something, that someone made a robotic lamp. And it's a very slow moving video. It's just this lamp that moves and looks around, this desk lamp, right?
MM (41:33):
And then all of a sudden the desk lamp turns itself off. There's a switch. And then the guy turns the switch back on, and then the lamp turns it off again. I jumped out of my seat. I was like, "This is a kid's magic trick! Are you kidding me?"
MM (41:46):
A Pixar lamp that turns off, and then I turn it on, and I walk away, and then it does it over and over again, that's a whole principle in children's magic. It's called "look, don't see." It's a very strong way to connect with a younger audience, where you do something, and when you walk away, something else happens.
MM (42:02):
And then all the kids shout at what just happened. And then you go back, and you just repeat it over and over again. You drive all the adults nuts, and you make the kids really excited, and you just milk this moment. So from that little moment with the desk lamp, I built a miniature robotic lamp.
MM (42:16):
And I based the whole routine on that one thing that I saw from that video of just turning itself on, and me turning the switch off, and then the robot. And then I used core principles of magic, the cups and ball trick, things that I know work in a routine.
MM (42:31):
I packed that all into the robotics and into the programming, and then I developed this three-minute routine with it. And so, yeah, I search blogs constantly trying to find little moments with tech that I know could be entertaining or funny.
MM (42:45):
And from there, I'll try to do, my magic side of my brain, research, "How can this fit into a magic routine that exists already?"
EW (42:52):
Now you've got me thinking about it. Last week, we talked to Leah, and she introduced us to really small stepper motors, really, couple millimeters.
MM (43:03):
Nice.
EW (43:03):
And since then, I've been like, "Well, that's really cool, but what would I really use it for? And then I'm thinking about one of your YouTube videos about the bristle bot, the piffle bot, -
MM (43:14):
Yeah.
EW (43:14):
- the thing where you put it on a cup and it jiggles around.
MM (43:18):
Yeah. The little Draw Bot.
EW (43:18):
With a little tiny motor you could do some pretty fun stuff like that with little tiny things.
MM (43:24):
Oh, totally. Elecia, I mean, you could stick it in a matchbox.
EW (43:27):
Exactly.
MM (43:27):
Imagine it had a little analog clock or something that spins to the perfect number that someone picks. I mean, there's so much you could do. And those stepper motors, I know what you're talking about. Those are so amazing. Yeah, that's really cool.
EW (43:41):
Yeah. I think every time I see technology for the next week, I'm going to be like, "Huh, I wonder how you could use that in a magic thing.
MM (43:48):
Yes.
EW (43:48):
Do you call them illusions or do you call them magic tricks?
MM (43:52):
Yeah, I don't know. I guess a micro illusion could be sensible. A magic trick or magic routine. I guess, yeah, it doesn't matter. It all flows in a certain sense.
CW (44:05):
One thing just came back to mind. You were talking about when you first got started and you went to the club with the old guys, and there's sort of a, not an initiation, but there was an event there that brought you into the fold a little bit.
CW (44:23):
There's a lot of gatekeeping in technology where people say, "Oh, you haven't done the due diligence. You haven't paid your dues to do what you're doing in tech...You're not a real engineer," and this kind of stuff.
MM (44:37):
[Mhmm. Mhmm.]
CW (44:37):
And I feel like what you were talking about with the magic tricks and revealing things, there's a little bit of that too. Like, "Well, you aren't ready to know how this trick works."
CW (44:44):
I guess the question I have is, you've experienced that, how do you push through gatekeeping, or people telling you, "No, you can't do this," or..."You're not ready for this?"
MM (44:58):
Yeah. I mean, it's a tricky, delicate thing, because no matter how we admit it, we're all thin-skinned. So any type of criticism or something can definitely affect you emotionally and all that. But I think what's important is that, I talk about this in my lecture, is like, "Who are you? And why are you here?"
MM (45:17):
These two questions always ring to me, knowing who I am and why I'm here. And for me, as long as my goal is always centered around my strengths, which is just inspiring kids to make, and get into magic, it makes it a lot easier. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of annoying, you know?
CW (45:35):
Yeah, yeah.
MM (45:36):
When Arduino came out in the beginning, man, the old school engineers were pissed. They just had every reason why this is a lazy way to program. "You're not really programming." And look, I'll tell you, I have an old Volkswagen bus, a 1971. There's modern ways to make that motor tick.
MM (45:56):
And then you have the traditionalist. They're like, "I'll never put that in my bus. I need to adjust everything." We all have that. And I think it's just part of identity. These people identify with a certain piece of tech because they've had it their whole life, so it's really difficult for them to see a change too.
MM (46:15):
Because maybe they feel lost seeing that new change, and they're trying to keep on with that identity. So I can respect that in some sense. But in the other sense, we've got to be flexible, because every year new tech is happening that makes us program easier.
MM (46:31):
And like I said, the goal always is create what we imagine. "Let nobody rob you of your imagination." Dr. Mae Jemison. I was just talking about that with a group. That's a powerful statement. Our imagination is everything. And the sooner that we can build what we imagine, no matter how we build it, I think it's the better.
MM (46:49):
But look, I agree. Yes, it's important. Gatekeepers. Yes, of course. And I've changed parts of my book, because I realized I'm revealing too much. Because we need our daily bread. There's an old saying about, "Don't feed me too much, because then I'll curse you. But don't feed me too little, because then I'll abandon you."
MM (47:11):
You need that daily bread that keeps you coming. And I think that philosophy can be adapted to everything. The way you perform a song, the way you perform on stage, we have to constantly feed our audience something just enough to keep them watching, and listening, and appreciating.
EW (47:30):
So your book, and putting enough in to keep people engaged, but not so much that you're losing your own ability to make a living -
CW (47:40):
Or to take away people's imagination like you said.
EW (47:43):
Yeah.
CW (47:43):
If you just give everything to them then there's no thought for themselves.
EW (47:48):
What was it like writing that book? Do you do a lot of writing?
MM (47:54):
Not really. I do a lot of talking as you can see. No, I mean, my life always has been jamming. I love philosophy. I love talking spirituality, I love all that stuff so much...That's why I used to play a lot of music in my 20s. I love all that stuff.
MM (48:15):
But as far as writing goes, no, I don't do a lot of writing. But what was cool was learning how to write, and learning how to speak what's on my heart, and put it into words.
MM (48:26):
And yeah. So the book is kind of like a bare bones structure of how you can create a show with objects at home, but then leaving room with the philosophy of like, "Hey, if you love punk rock music, man, then put punk rock everywhere on your backdrop."
MM (48:45):
Whatever makes you feel like you know who you are so you have that confidence on stage, do it. There's a lot of that in the book. Just writing a list down of what your deep interests are outside of magic, and how can you adapt those deep interests into your magic? Stuff like that.
MM (49:00):
And it was just fun, because like you guys said, during the pandemic, you lose so much. And having this book get published for the first time was like a light at the end of the tunnel...It brought a lot of hope to me, and watching families build these projects at home was really fun and inspiring.
EW (49:19):
With your magic, the technology is usually quite obvious, or some technology is intended to be obvious, but I know with other forms of magic the technology is more hidden. But there's still a lot of engineering in some of those big illusions or big stage -
CW (49:40):
Set pieces.
EW (49:41):
Set pieces.
MM (49:41):
Yeah. Yeah.
EW (49:42):
How do other magicians or other designers get into that sort of a field of being able to design tricks for people?
MM (49:54):
Yeah, and now that's where the water gets muddy. That's where everything gets gray, because there's a lot of beautiful secrets in magic, and secrets that have been kept for hundreds of years, still, that are used today that can fool people so deeply.
MM (50:09):
And I think that's part of why people are very scared when material comes out and stuff. But yeah, this is where it gets muddy. I don't know. There's some amazing makers in the magic community, and there's some beautiful, rich gimmicks as you get into magic, and you join a magic club, and people reveal stuff to you.
MM (50:35):
I think that's part of the pull for me too. Because I just love mechanical things. And the more I got into magic and learning the history of how we can fool an audience with an object and the mechanics behind it was just so fascinating.
MM (50:49):
But yeah, like you said, Elecia, a lot of my robotics are exposed, but the beauty of it is I'm not going to lie. I mean, there's a lot of robotics that are hidden, like fake buttons, and fake wires. And that's what makes it fun. And it goes back to what I was saying with aesthetics too, knowing who you are, why you are here.
MM (51:08):
I don't know if you've heard of the artist, Tom Sachs. He's been around a long time, but I love his aesthetics as an artist. And so you'll see some of that style in my robotics, the way they look and stuff too.
MM (51:18):
So I think it's important to always keep the things that you love in mind as you create, because...it'll just give you that confidence, especially when you're standing in front of an audience, to be around the things that you love.
CW (51:31):
Are there people who aren't mugi - [Bleh]. Let me try that again. Are there people who aren't magi - Why can't I speak? Are there people who aren't mu - Forget it.
CW (51:40):
Are there people who are not performers who are designing tricks and selling them to performers? Is there an engineering community of the behind the scenes people? Or is it mostly the performers themselves designing tricks and stuff?
MM (51:54):
Yeah. I mean, wow. You guys want to know the secrets, man.
CW (51:57):
No. You don't have to tell me -
MM (51:58):
Damn.
CW (51:58):
- anything you don't want to tell me. I'm just curious.
MM (52:00):
Damn, I love it. I love it. No, there is -
EW (52:01):
He just wants to be the person who designs the tricks.
CW (52:04):
I just want to be, that's right. I'm looking for a job.
MM (52:07):
I love it. No, honestly, yes. Just yes. 110%. There's people that are just strictly makers for the magic community where like, "Oh, you need that?"
CW (52:18):
Okay.
MM (52:18):
"Then you've got to call, this is the guy. This is the person." That's all he does. There's a garage in Greenwich, Connecticut. They're called the Freccia Brothers. They're a family business. All they do is service air-cooled Volkswagens. And it's amazing. They're the only ones in the Northeast.
MM (52:37):
So people are driving their hippie buses from Vermont, Maine, all to go to this one garage. And I love it. And I had to get my generator changed out of my Volkswagen, because it wasn't charging anymore. So a generator is like an alternator. It charges the battery. And the only way to take the generator out is by removing the whole engine.
MM (52:56):
So I'm a maker. I don't want to do that. I can't do that. So I go to Freccia, and they fixed it in three days. I come back, and I'm like, "Dave, dude, thank you so much. How did you do this? Did you have to take the engine out?" And he's like, "No, I don't have to take the engine out." He's like, "Listen, I got my own tricks," he said.
MM (53:13):
I have no idea. I have no idea how...It's impossible. I had every wrench, and angle, and trying to get this generator out. There's no way you could take the generator out without taking the engine out. But...what I'm trying to say in the bigger picture is there's niches.
CW (53:29):
Yeah, yeah.
MM (53:29):
There's people that have very specific skills for very specific objects to create magic. And if you were really interested, Chris, you know I'd hook you up, dude. So there's definitely community boards and all kinds of blogs that people follow for that stuff.
EW (53:43):
You actually have another book coming out.
MM (53:46):
Yes. And I'm so excited about it. The first book, "Maker Magician's Handbook," is all everyday objects to create magic. And this is geared more for elementary age and families. But the second book that's coming out, I think I'm allowed to say the title, it's going to be possibly called "Robot Magic."
MM (54:05):
It should be out in December, hopefully...in the winter. And it's seven routines, full robotic DIY routines that perform magic with you. So it's an exploration of sleight of hand and robotics. And...I put my strong stuff in there, and I'm real excited about it.
MM (54:24):
And so basically what's so cool about it is that all you really need is an Arduino and two servo motors, and you can build most -
CW (54:31):
Awesome.
MM (54:31):
- of everything in there. And a couple LEDs...I did that on purpose. And as far as all the measuring goes, a lot of the cuts are using a playing card box as your measuring stick so you're literally tracing. I'm trying to make it fun with the way that you make it too, so it's not just this two-dimensional tutorial.
EW (54:55):
I'll just put that on Christopher's Christmas list right now, because I'm pretty sure he'll want it. I only have one more question. Chris, do you have more questions?
CW (55:05):
Go ahead with yours, and I'll think.
EW (55:08):
What card am I thinking of?
CW (55:09):
Oh.
MM (55:12):
Ace of spades. Come on. No.
EW (55:13):
No, sorry. Four of diamonds.
CW (55:14):
Nobody thinks of the four of diamonds.
MM (55:15):
No. That was my second guess. That was the second guess.
CW (55:19):
She's lying. She's lying.
EW (55:24):
Well, since you didn't get the four of diamonds, we aren't going to ask you any more questions, other than, do you have any thoughts you'd like to leave us with?
MM (55:33):
No,...like I said earlier, I think the most important thing for me, the big takeaway for me, even in my show, is the importance of doing what you love, and using what you have, and having fun. And don't ever be afraid of asking for help.
MM (55:48):
When there's something that you want to learn and you don't have all the know-how for it, everything that I've built, there's always another person that took their time to help me, that came from a Maker Faire, or from some type of tech blog that I was following.
MM (56:03):
So that's it. Do what you love, use what you have, and have fun. And thank you so much, Elecia and Chris for having me on. It was just so much fun talking and jamming with both of you.
CW (56:12):
It was a great time. Yeah.
EW (56:14):
It's a joy. Our guest has been Mario Marchese, aka Mario the Maker Magician. Find out more on mariothemagician.com, where you can also find his tour schedule, which might possibly include a giant inflatable rabbit, but we can't say more.
EW (56:32):
You can also find his YouTube channel, his Instagram, and a link to his book, "The Maker Magician's Handbook: A Beginner's Guide to Magic + Making." And of course the links will be in the show notes.
CW (56:43):
Thanks, Mario. This was fun.
MM (56:46):
Thank you so much.
EW (56:47):
Thank you to Christopher for producing and co-hosting. Thank you to the Embedded Patreon Slack group for pointing me towards Mario's videos. And thank you for listening. You can always contact us at show@embedded.fm, or hit the contact link on embedded.fm.
EW (57:02):
And now a quote to leave you with. This one is going to be from "So You Want to Be a Wizard" by Diane Duane. "Believe something and the Universe is on its way to being changed. Because you've changed, by believing."